Moan - THAT Slate email

VST, AU, etc. plug-in Virtual Effects discussion
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KVRAF
15747 posts since 16 Sep, 2001 from Las Vegas,USA

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:52 pm

I think I paid well less than $100 for ANA 2 right from Sonic Academy. I didn't get the butt ugly skins but hey that's better than having to pay for them every month until I die or retire.... :hihi:

My thing with subscriptions is what if I use one or more plugins in a project, decide to stop the subscription in a few months then want to work on the project after that? It won't load those plugins and I'll have to substitute them for something else so why not just substitute them now and save the money and hassle?

Some call them subscription plans. I call them subscription scams. But to each his own..... :tu:
None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Banned
102 posts since 23 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:06 pm

Well, I said I was done for the night, but I drank the koolaid :lol:

Anyways, realistically, you can't go wrong either way. So, let's toast to options!

Banned
102 posts since 23 Jul, 2021

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:24 pm

plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:34 pm
hitherepeople wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm
I really don't want to come across as a plant for Slate :lol:

But I have to say, ANA2, the two gates in the VMR, again the soundpacks (while I use a lot) are just the examples I have of the good side of the sub. If it's an upgrade, you would have to pay for that, well, likely.
In 5 years you'd have paid out $870US (or $750 if paid annually) and have to continue to pay out after that. If that works for you, over perpetual licenses, great! Maybe it's a business expense and write-off which could make subscriptions make better sense for people. Or, subscriptions are just a preference.
You are NOT wrong. I get you, loud and clear. I'm simply saying that it's a judgement call. For me, it seems like a decent payoff. For others, it's a no-go. I have no guidance, I just offer my 2c.

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KVRist
312 posts since 17 Sep, 2020

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:37 pm

plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:09 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:46 pm
Wow... You'd be stupid not to sub for some new samples and ANA 2 which some nu skins. LOL
I think subs make sense for specific use-cases, like issues related to cash flow, taxes etc. But in general 1:1 they dont make much sense. But for people where a sub makes more sense, for sure, good there are those options.
Yep, subs are totally fine. It's only when you try to push your previous purchasers into it, or suddenly 'favor' your subscribers, then there's a problem. :wink:

User avatar
KVRAF
4528 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm

Effectsworks wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:37 pm
plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:09 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:46 pm
Wow... You'd be stupid not to sub for some new samples and ANA 2 which some nu skins. LOL
I think subs make sense for specific use-cases, like issues related to cash flow, taxes etc. But in general 1:1 they dont make much sense. But for people where a sub makes more sense, for sure, good there are those options.
Yep, subs are totally fine. It's only when you try to push your previous purchasers into it, or suddenly 'favor' your subscribers, then there's a problem. :wink:
I use an expensive software application for my non-music work. it was $750. The latest version they dropped licenses and now its subscription only. Me and many other previous customers have decided to move on from it. It doesn't just happen with plugins and its as irritating. But like plugins there are other options out there. I dont really understand companies that go sub-only when a perpetual license would also be a relevant option. On the other hand a different company with a competing product has sub-only but they give you 90% of the apps functionality for free, and then its $12/mo for a subscription. vs $25/mo sub-only with the other app I mentioned - guess where people are flocking. Dumb business decisions.

User avatar
KVRAF
2209 posts since 8 Dec, 2008 from Global Cowboy

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:04 pm

Teksonik wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:52 pm
Some call them subscription plans. I call them subscription scams. But to each his own..... :tu:
:tu:

Milking plans for milking glands :wink:
No auto tune and iLok free...

User avatar
KVRAF
3006 posts since 8 Jul, 2008 from UK

Post Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:47 pm

I remember seeing Slate on Pensado's place many years ago, and I thought then, what a ****. I never used a thing of his and reading all this now, I am glad I don't.

I won't ever get involved with the subscription thing, its either rent to own or buy outright, as for updates, I don't mind paying for updates if the update price is reasonable and not over inflated (Steinberg!!!)
Forward ever, Backward never

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25847 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:51 am

plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm
I dont really understand companies that go sub-only
Shareholder value. Subscription based software companies are valued 10x more than companies selling perpetual licenses. Rule of thumb from what people tell me.

User avatar
KVRist
312 posts since 17 Sep, 2020

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 am

plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:37 pm
plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:09 pm
Effectsworks wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 4:46 pm
Wow... You'd be stupid not to sub for some new samples and ANA 2 which some nu skins. LOL
I think subs make sense for specific use-cases, like issues related to cash flow, taxes etc. But in general 1:1 they dont make much sense. But for people where a sub makes more sense, for sure, good there are those options.
Yep, subs are totally fine. It's only when you try to push your previous purchasers into it, or suddenly 'favor' your subscribers, then there's a problem. :wink:
I use an expensive software application for my non-music work. it was $750. The latest version they dropped licenses and now its subscription only. Me and many other previous customers have decided to move on from it. It doesn't just happen with plugins and its as irritating. But like plugins there are other options out there. I dont really understand companies that go sub-only when a perpetual license would also be a relevant option. On the other hand a different company with a competing product has sub-only but they give you 90% of the apps functionality for free, and then its $12/mo for a subscription. vs $25/mo sub-only with the other app I mentioned - guess where people are flocking. Dumb business decisions.
It's a shame some of these companies just don't do both. It can be done of course, House of Kush managed to do it. No one ever complains about those dudes.

Yeah, there are plenty of options out there as well. Looks like Izotope are going that way too. Time to move on and give your business to others. :)

KVRist
75 posts since 1 Sep, 2016

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:38 am

Urs wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:51 am
plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm
I dont really understand companies that go sub-only
Shareholder value. Subscription based software companies are valued 10x more than companies selling perpetual licenses. Rule of thumb from what people tell me.
Just reassure us that u-He will never go that route!

User avatar
KVRian
1070 posts since 3 Jan, 2019 from Holland

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:53 am

hitherepeople wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm
But I have to say, ANA2, the two gates in the VMR, again the soundpacks (while I use a lot) are just the examples I have of the good side of the sub. If it's an upgrade, you would have to pay for that, well, likely.
I paid 49 bucks for Ana2. And i get most of the Slate sample packs for free as a newsletter subscriber which costs nothing.

Not that the "exclusive content" (or Ana2) is anything special, but you can ofcourse just do 1 month of sub, and keep all the "exclusive content" after.
More BPM please

KVRAF
2027 posts since 15 Apr, 2004 from Capital City, UK

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:59 am

Urs wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:51 am
plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm
I dont really understand companies that go sub-only
Shareholder value. Subscription based software companies are valued 10x more than companies selling perpetual licenses. Rule of thumb from what people tell me.
genau. it is purely a business move.
some would argue that the companies which use this method have a better idea of future-funding so they can take 'risks', but from what I see, they don't tend to.

User avatar
KVRAF
4306 posts since 15 Nov, 2006 from Hell

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:06 am

Effectsworks wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:47 am
It's a shame some of these companies just don't do both. It can be done of course, House of Kush managed to do it. No one ever complains about those dudes.
i have Kush sub. not only i wouldn't complain about them, i actually can say nothing but good things about them. they're a very specific kinds of plugins so they're not for everyone, but if you're into what they offer... i've been on the sub since they offered a $9.99 tier for both Kush and Sly-Fi, so i'm on the OG subscription.

it's been three and a half years since that started, so about 42 months. that's about $420 (Kush would approve :D) that i've spent with them. over that time we got AR-1, Novatron, Goldplate, Silica, Hammer DSP, REDDI, plus everything else that they already had - Clariphonic, UBK-1, the Omegas, Electra, Pusher, Kaya, Deflector, Axis... I use all of them pretty regularly, and the AR-1 has become my goto "slap it on the master when i'm short on time" bus compressor as it just makes everything sound good. so while it seems like $420 could've bought me a lot of the ones i use regularly, i'm actually happy to have Kush sub because i get so much value out of these plugins i'm OK with just throwing money Greg's way every month :D
From Russia with love
Our online jams (if you speak Russian - you're welcome to join!)

User avatar
Urs
u-he
25847 posts since 8 Aug, 2002 from Berlin

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:13 am

NeonNightflyer wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:38 am
Urs wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:51 am
plexuss wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:42 pm
I dont really understand companies that go sub-only
Shareholder value. Subscription based software companies are valued 10x more than companies selling perpetual licenses. Rule of thumb from what people tell me.
Just reassure us that u-He will never go that route!
Hehehe, I'm happy to discuss this in our company forum. I just posted here to provide perspective to something that creates ripples in our industry (this particular newsletter is being discussed heavily among dozens of plug-in developers in other places).

User avatar
KVRian
1046 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Italy

Post Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:20 am

I don't usually comment about other fellow developers, but I got that email too and I found it, at least, as the worst marketing pitch ever.

As a developer, I should feel offended by the assumption their company is doing in that email. AFAIK, there are pretty much a lot of developers that offers great stuff for fair price and updates are free of charge. Sure, if a new major version of a plugin comes out, they usually offer an upgrade price but, imho, it's an honest way of doing business.

There are other ways of doing business, like high full price, followed by a perpetual last day offer and paid updates based on MSRP... and we all know who I'm talking about ;) But this business model is old and only very few companies are still applying it.

My 2 cents,
Luca

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