Ableton Live 11.1 - Apple Silicon support public beta now available

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
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KVRian
1255 posts since 16 Jan, 2004

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:18 am

I'm happy about the addition of MIDI Shaper. However, I wish it was a native Live device, vs a Max device. I still feel like Max devices add overhead to a project. Maybe things are better in Live 11? But in 10, it seemed like projects using Max devices took longer to open, and overall were less stable...

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KVRAF

Topic Starter

10281 posts since 4 Jan, 2017 from Warsaw, Poland

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:29 am

OzoneJunkie wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:18 am
...But in 10, it seemed like projects using Max devices took longer to open, and overall were less stable
That's still the case in 11, but once they load they work fine.
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Music tech enthusiast
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My "music": https://soundcloud.com/antic604

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KVRAF
2370 posts since 9 Dec, 2011 from falling

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:30 am

SLiC wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:11 am
billcarroll wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:08 am
Align Delay is a Max for Live device which I can't seem to find at them moment. Same goes for MIDI Shaper.
Takes a while, just leave Live open and they will appear!
Cool, thanks. :)

KVRist
192 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm

When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?

KVRist
419 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:13 pm

FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm
When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?
that seems unlikely, but not sure. They likely would have pointed that out if it was the case. Bitwig only does this, because the application is kinda modular with the plugin hosting part being it's own app container.

KVRist
419 posts since 4 Apr, 2006

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:16 pm

antic604 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:07 am
Really? Wouldn't that just move the note in arrow mode and delete it in pencil mode? In every other DAW changing velocity always requires modifier key (although S1 in t.2 or 5.3 added a gesture that doesn't need modifier that's available if you're zoomed enough vertically).
that's why i found Live's Pen Tool so great. single click and drag to create a note and change velocity - single click to delete again. Very pure and fast, no modifier Keys needed.

It worked especially great when using the left hand to switch grid resolution sizes, which meant you would never really have to drag notes smaller or bigger - unless you're adjusting.

that being said, adjusting note sizes with the mouse is also a dream in LIVE, the way the notes have a small snap area and then you can just freely humanize them is great.

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KVRist
330 posts since 9 Jun, 2020

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:32 pm

Shifter is awesome. Listen as a singer in your left channel is sent on an intergalactic space mission while the other is utterly unaffected.
Screenshot 2021-09-28 at 23.29.32.png
https://soundcloud.com/taptapdoubletap/shifter-oddness
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KVRer
17 posts since 1 Jan, 2021

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:15 pm

FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm
When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?
Yes, it works quite nicely with AUs. I don’t know about Bitwig oder Logic, but apparently Live is using the AUHostingCompatibilityService process to bridge x86 AU plugins.

Non-native VST plugins don’t work directly and aren’t even shown in the browser. However, it’s possible to load e.g. Maschine or Komplete Kontrol as AU plugin (x86), they can see and use x86 VST plugins within Live.

It’s a bit glitchy at times, but it works surprisingly well. Overall a fantastic update, I’m very happy :)

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KVRAF
3749 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:22 pm

nanostream wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:15 pm
FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm
When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?
Yes, it works quite nicely with AUs. I don’t know about Bitwig oder Logic, but apparently Live is using the AUHostingCompatibilityService process to bridge x86 AU plugins.

Non-native VST plugins don’t work directly and aren’t even shown in the browser. However, it’s possible to load e.g. Maschine or Komplete Kontrol as AU plugin (x86), they can see and use x86 VST plugins within Live.

It’s a bit glitchy at times, but it works surprisingly well. Overall a fantastic update, I’m very happy :)
:tu:

KVRist
46 posts since 20 Mar, 2016

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:13 pm

nanostream wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:15 pm
Yes, it works quite nicely with AUs. I don’t know about Bitwig oder Logic, but apparently Live is using the AUHostingCompatibilityService process to bridge x86 AU plugins.

Non-native VST plugins don’t work directly and aren’t even shown in the browser. However, it’s possible to load e.g. Maschine or Komplete Kontrol as AU plugin (x86), they can see and use x86 VST plugins within Live.

It’s a bit glitchy at times, but it works surprisingly well. Overall a fantastic update, I’m very happy :)
Brilliant! I never would have thought of using Maschine/KK as an Intel VST bridge!

Dan
Windows/Mac | Studio One, Live, Logic | Push 2, Maschine MKIII, Atom SQ | Presonus Quantum 2, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, | Fender, Godin, Taylor

KVRist
192 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:23 pm

nanostream wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:15 pm
FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm
When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?
Yes, it works quite nicely with AUs. I don’t know about Bitwig oder Logic, but apparently Live is using the AUHostingCompatibilityService process to bridge x86 AU plugins.

Non-native VST plugins don’t work directly and aren’t even shown in the browser. However, it’s possible to load e.g. Maschine or Komplete Kontrol as AU plugin (x86), they can see and use x86 VST plugins within Live.

It’s a bit glitchy at times, but it works surprisingly well. Overall a fantastic update, I’m very happy :)
Great. But if Mashine/KK can do it (and maybe Unify ?), why not such a bridge from AL them self ?
Last edited by FotoxBr on Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KVRAF
1728 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:45 pm

docbot wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:48 am
great update, too bad they still won't give us back the old pen behaviour - I hate having to hold alt to change velocity, it was so slick to just drag down to change the velocity in all the previous versions. boohuu
It still does this when aren't using the pen and you double-click to enter a note. Not quite as easy, but easier than entering then reselecting and changing the velocity.

If you must use the pen, then keep your other hand on the number keys and type in the velocity as you enter notes. Maybe they feel that the typing is more precise than dragging. I liked the old way as well as you could always correct the note with the arrow keys.

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KVRAF
3749 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:32 pm

FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:23 pm
nanostream wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:15 pm
FotoxBr wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 12:31 pm
When this Apple Silicon version runs natively on M1, will it also run non native plugins (like Bitwig 4 does for instance) ?
Yes, it works quite nicely with AUs. I don’t know about Bitwig oder Logic, but apparently Live is using the AUHostingCompatibilityService process to bridge x86 AU plugins.

Non-native VST plugins don’t work directly and aren’t even shown in the browser. However, it’s possible to load e.g. Maschine or Komplete Kontrol as AU plugin (x86), they can see and use x86 VST plugins within Live.

It’s a bit glitchy at times, but it works surprisingly well. Overall a fantastic update, I’m very happy :)
Great. But if Mashine/KK can do it (and maybe Unify ?), why not such a bridge from AL them self ?
You're not getting the technology here. Live like most M1 Mac DAWs can use the AU bridge built into the OS, So the tech isn't coming directly from Logic, Live, DP etc. etc. it's coming from Apple. VST isn't owned by Apple, they can't and wouldn't develop some kind of converter for it. But, an AU host that can act like a plug in, like Maschine, Komplete Control, can be used because the plug ins aren't hosted directly in your DAW.

IMO Komplete Control is a better host here, because AU has some limitations in terms of MIDI out from the AUi.

KVRist
192 posts since 6 Jul, 2019

Post Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:58 pm

Ableton could include a simplified KK like AU in their package for hosting VST ? But maybe it is easier for me to just keep running AL in Intel mode under Rosetta or use Bitwig 4.

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KVRian
1008 posts since 30 Mar, 2008 from MN, USA

Post Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:59 am

Reaper has their own VST bridge. Bitwig didn't need to because all they had to do was run their plugin host processes under Rosetta2, so it was nearly bridge-ready by default.

Studio One already said they are working on a VST bridge. Perhaps we will see one in Ableton later in the beta cycle.

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