Madrona Labs Sumu

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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pdxindy
KVRAF
20908 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am

masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.

kobal
KVRian
502 posts since 5 Jul, 2004

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:27 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am
masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.
thanks i will check that..
i think there is option in reaper to disable plugins when no audio but i m not sure

Sumu looks very good as a fan of their plugs i guess if i demo i will have to buy .. :D

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:28 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am
masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.
i think it is quite system dependent, not very low cpu/sample buffer, but as expected from these kind of synths, even with MPE. and very managable. but 1 system very new, second system 2 years old... so...
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20908 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 am

WasteLand wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:28 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am
masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.
i think it is quite system dependent, not very low cpu/sample buffer, but as expected from these kind of synths, even with MPE. and very managable. but 1 system very new, second system 2 years old... so...
If you have an instance set to 4 voices, it uses the full CPU of 4 playing voices even when it is not playing any voices. So if I have a 6 minute composition, and a Kaivo part that lasts only 30 seconds, it still uses the full cpu during the entire 6 minutes. Quite inefficient!

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:23 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 am
WasteLand wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:28 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am
masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.
i think it is quite system dependent, not very low cpu/sample buffer, but as expected from these kind of synths, even with MPE. and very managable. but 1 system very new, second system 2 years old... so...
If you have an instance set to 4 voices, it uses the full CPU of 4 playing voices even when it is not playing any voices. So if I have a 6 minute composition, and a Kaivo part that lasts only 30 seconds, it still uses the full cpu during the entire 6 minutes. Quite inefficient!
i don't want to go into a debate, they are semi-modular, and i think they work even on sample rate, i assume it, and i think i even asked it. but my memory. assume: well that is the nature of modular...

but i get mixed results; system 1; reaper 5 instances of Kaivo kills it. no MPE.
system 2; bitwig, 11 instances, MPE, heavy modulation. all tracks armed, 8 voice. no stress...

on system 1, the double buffer of the soundinterface kicked in, for the first time i saw that i cán work, mostly it doesn't... the double buffer...

on system 2, no double buffer, but extreme low sample buffer load. for MPE, and these kind of synths. extreme low, it is an overstatement, but i could add more...

i can kill system 2 with Pigments 3, heavily modulated, MPE, with Bitwig, with only 4 instances...

i thought that on system 1 it could perform better, perhaps i sold the wrong soundinterface... well no prob, system 1 is meant for sketching, although i make also tracks with it.

system 2, well, it is my desktop/studio built, so, it is built for performance, also the soundinterface seems to influence the 'score'.

i use on both system a sample buffer of 512 samples, on system 2, i went to 256 samples, the result in percentage; sample buffer fill was the same.

is this interesting? it seems that Kaivo/Aalto indeed draw a lot, but it also depends on the system you have.

all done under Windows 10, by the way.

Reaper of course, all tracks armed, why choose bitwig, on system 2? well bitwig isn't that optimized, or it is.. it depends on the plugin..

EDIT: i only want to supply more info, although i don't share the specs of the system, perhaps worth it?

on my previous studio desktop, i had also no problems, with Kaivo. Aalto i just recently, some months, work with it.

but your remark is quite usefull; and you can demo Madronalab synths, without time restrictions (but with noise...), it seems quite worthfull to check if your system can handle them in way that is comfortable.

and perhaps, but that is question, for the developer, Randy, there are perhaps some optimizations necessary. the V2 versions are coming. well, also later...
Last edited by WasteLand on Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

martinjuenke
KVRAF
5404 posts since 28 Dec, 2015 from Hanover, Germany

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:24 am

Sometimes problems with plugins are just problems of hosting DAWs.

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:30 am

martinjuenke wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:24 am
Sometimes problems with plugins are just problems of hosting DAWs.
yes a DAW influences the performance, but that is why, i think @pdxindy is right to also focus on the CPU draw...
some plugins perform better in one DAW, and some worse. even Cubase can be a performer, with some plugins...
or even Reaper can be killed (with armed tracks), by a plugin..

i did only a small stress test within Reaper, and Bitwig. i could also stress test within other DAW's.

but it seems, that the performance of your system and performance of the soundcard, are the main factor. it seems. no scientific statement.
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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pdxindy
KVRAF
20908 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:35 am

:dog:

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WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:38 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 10:35 am
:dog:
:scared: well i stated the obvious... but still.... :borg:

EDIT: on system 2, that performs quite impressive....., indeed the same sample buffer fill rate, without playing notes, or with playing notes.

is that inefficient? or by design? in other words, is it needed to make these synths work as they.. work...
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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kejkz
KVRist
455 posts since 8 Dec, 2004 from Belgrade

Post Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:18 am

great, was looking for a fm synth lately, this could be a winner.

KMKMKM
KVRer
2 posts since 30 Nov, 2021

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:31 am

pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 am
WasteLand wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:28 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:19 am
masterhiggins wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:32 pm
Can't wait to be thoroughly disappointed by the crippling CPU usage.
I stopped using Aalto and Kaivo because of the cpu use. More specifically, that they use full cpu whether they are playing notes or not so they use up lots of cpu when idle.

They are only practical for me to record straight to audio and then deactivate the plugin to save the cpu.
i think it is quite system dependent, not very low cpu/sample buffer, but as expected from these kind of synths, even with MPE. and very managable. but 1 system very new, second system 2 years old... so...
If you have an instance set to 4 voices, it uses the full CPU of 4 playing voices even when it is not playing any voices. So if I have a 6 minute composition, and a Kaivo part that lasts only 30 seconds, it still uses the full cpu during the entire 6 minutes. Quite inefficient!
One of the good aspect of that system is that you can drone with the oscillator by just turning the level knob and listen to the oscillators/voices at once, like on an hardware system... I like it actually, it's one of the rare vst I own that function like that.
What would be perfect is to be able to switch on and off that system though

.jon
KVRAF
5769 posts since 9 Jul, 2002 from Helsinki

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:49 am

Aalto isnt really that heavy on CPU, but Kaivo definitely brought my PC to the knees, and I havent bought it for that reason.

Just deactivate the track or device in your DAW to shut down the cpu when not in use, easy.

User avatar
WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:14 am

.jon wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:49 am
Aalto isnt really that heavy on CPU, but Kaivo definitely brought my PC to the knees, and I havent bought it for that reason.

Just deactivate the track or device in your DAW to shut down the cpu when not in use, easy.
perhaps interesting for the developer on which systems, Aalto and/or Kaivo do not perform well.
Aalto/Kaivo will go to version 2 (paid upgrade) perhaps this can solve, something, or it is just the way they work. not all plugins can work on particular systems..

but that doesn't mean, improvements can be possible.
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
20908 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:52 am

KMKMKM wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:31 am
pdxindy wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:47 am

If you have an instance set to 4 voices, it uses the full CPU of 4 playing voices even when it is not playing any voices. So if I have a 6 minute composition, and a Kaivo part that lasts only 30 seconds, it still uses the full cpu during the entire 6 minutes. Quite inefficient!
One of the good aspect of that system is that you can drone with the oscillator by just turning the level knob and listen to the oscillators/voices at once, like on an hardware system... I like it actually, it's one of the rare vst I own that function like that.
What would be perfect is to be able to switch on and off that system though
I've got hardware modular for that... and it doesn't crush the CPU.

I don't have Kaivo installed anymore. It is too impractical to use for anything but a bit of playing around.

User avatar
WasteLand
KVRAF
2221 posts since 8 Jun, 2018

Post Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:54 am

pdxindy wrote:
Mon Dec 06, 2021 5:52 am
I've got hardware modular for that... and it doesn't crush the CPU.

I don't have Kaivo installed anymore. It is too impractical to use for anything but a bit of playing around.
of course always other solutions.. but which CPU, does Kaivo crush?
take me as apple as reed-son as flesh-icon, immediately
shits the wise man. hero and blind. take me as
stick as tongue as dog... Music & Soundscraping

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