IK Syntronik 2 is out (looks like 'MAX' version required to get new synths)

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
art&sound
KVRer
22 posts since 24 Mar, 2020

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:58 am

DarkStar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:09 am
Syn2 can load the instruments from the Syn1 library, but does not otherwise use the Syn1 library. So if you do not need Syn1 at all you can remove the Syn1 library folders and files. Personally I would copy it to a back-up disk, to avoid any future 180 days problem.

Remove the path from Syn2's Sound Content path list too.

Syn2 includes the Syn1 instruments, upgraded to use the Syn2 engine (and are .st4i instrument files), so you can edit them on the Edit page. "The Edit Panel is only available for new Syntronik 2 presets including the new presets created for the 22 original Syntronik synths. "
Thanks!

BenfordLaw
KVRist
153 posts since 12 Nov, 2020

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:59 am

flori89 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:51 pm
BenfordLaw wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:56 am
Meester Smeeeth wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:22 pm
I’m not too bothered about syntronik, I don’t really use it much myself but I can’t understand why anybody could be angry about it. There are plenty of modelled alternatives there’s literally no point complaining. Just buy what you like and ignore what you don’t.
Yes, I wonder who is "angry" about it. And we mustn't post anything negative about any products at all, ever, otherwise somebody might end up not buying them, which would be awful.
Who would buy Syntronik 2, and why? I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get, for a shedload of money, and a lot of hard drive space, and none of it sounds any better than any number of actual synth VSTis out there, which you can also do much more with (i.e. edit the presets much more than Syntronik 2 could ever allow you to.)

So far, nobody has rebutted anything I said, but apparently I'm wrong about it all. That's how KVR work. Each new VST gets its own fanboys who can't face any criticism of it, as if it's there sister or something...
I mean that's your personal opinion, what's there to rebute? If 200GB of content and 5.000 presets is "feeble" what is there even to discuss? Plenty of people also don't really care for deep sound design options, I have Falcon for that. Omnisphere is basically only used as a giant preset library by 95% of the people.

Your opinion is your opinion, S2 isn't for you, so buy something else. VV3 is still on sale for 349€: https://www.uvi.net/vintage-vault-3-upgrade-sp.html

Last day, so you better hurry.
When I said "I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get" I was referring to what I posted up - which was the Andromeda expansion, as an example. 200GB of content is not necessarily good IN ANY WAY. It's more hard drive space, more time to load each preset, and so on. It is not necessarily good that a synth takes up 200GB of space on your hard drive. I would only use GB of data for samples in a Kontakt library (or other sampler's library), because it's not yet possible to physically model certain sounds realistically. Everything else should be done with a synth, not with samples of a synth.
Remember Best Service Titan and Titan 2? How well did they go down?

200GB of hard drive space for 5,000 synth presets is ridiculous. I have thousands of Zebra 2 presets in about 200MB of hard drive space. It's about 5,000 presets in total.

DarkStar
KVRAF
10057 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:17 am

bob_gray wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:43 am
So just to be absolutely clear about host automation in Syntronik 2:

I have Syntronik 1 Deluxe. No plans to upgrade to 2 yet. My understanding is that if I install Syntronik 2 CS, all the existing sounds from Syntronik 1 will be playable in it exactly as they are now (not upgraded I know, but that's fine), except that I'll now be able to automate their parameters normally in my DAW instead of using MIDI learn. Can anyone confirm that this is how it works?

If so, this is really great. I like the Syntronik interface, but I only play the sounds via SampleTank at the moment because of the lack of proper automation in Syntronik 1.
Here is a Syn1 preset in Syn 2 CS. In Syn 2, such presets use the embedded Syn1 engine. I have automated 2 of its parameters.

Image

And the mappings stay in place when you change presets ! :)
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

flori89
KVRist
195 posts since 19 Aug, 2021

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:33 am

BenfordLaw wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:59 am
flori89 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:51 pm
BenfordLaw wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:56 am
Meester Smeeeth wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:22 pm
I’m not too bothered about syntronik, I don’t really use it much myself but I can’t understand why anybody could be angry about it. There are plenty of modelled alternatives there’s literally no point complaining. Just buy what you like and ignore what you don’t.
Yes, I wonder who is "angry" about it. And we mustn't post anything negative about any products at all, ever, otherwise somebody might end up not buying them, which would be awful.
Who would buy Syntronik 2, and why? I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get, for a shedload of money, and a lot of hard drive space, and none of it sounds any better than any number of actual synth VSTis out there, which you can also do much more with (i.e. edit the presets much more than Syntronik 2 could ever allow you to.)

So far, nobody has rebutted anything I said, but apparently I'm wrong about it all. That's how KVR work. Each new VST gets its own fanboys who can't face any criticism of it, as if it's there sister or something...
I mean that's your personal opinion, what's there to rebute? If 200GB of content and 5.000 presets is "feeble" what is there even to discuss? Plenty of people also don't really care for deep sound design options, I have Falcon for that. Omnisphere is basically only used as a giant preset library by 95% of the people.

Your opinion is your opinion, S2 isn't for you, so buy something else. VV3 is still on sale for 349€: https://www.uvi.net/vintage-vault-3-upgrade-sp.html

Last day, so you better hurry.
When I said "I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get" I was referring to what I posted up - which was the Andromeda expansion, as an example. 200GB of content is not necessarily good IN ANY WAY. It's more hard drive space, more time to load each preset, and so on. It is not necessarily good that a synth takes up 200GB of space on your hard drive. I would only use GB of data for samples in a Kontakt library (or other sampler's library), because it's not yet possible to physically model certain sounds realistically. Everything else should be done with a synth, not with samples of a synth.
Remember Best Service Titan and Titan 2? How well did they go down?

200GB of hard drive space for 5,000 synth presets is ridiculous. I have thousands of Zebra 2 presets in about 200MB of hard drive space. It's about 5,000 presets in total.
Should I call you the apples & oranges master? Again, that this should be modeled instead of sampled is your opinion. You can have that opinion but saying "5000 presets for 200GB isn't enough because in my opinion they should model synths instead of sampling them" is a textbook example of a strawman argument.

That you have the opinion that sampled libraries aren't cutting it, isn't an objective truth. It's your opinion and an opinion in this can't be refuted, since what sounds better is completely subjective. Plenty of people prefer sampled libraries to modeled ones because to them only samples can get the full analog sound.

Spectrasonics is creating a synth made from samples. You might have heard of it before. Remind me, how well are they doing?

seangm
KVRist
228 posts since 7 Dec, 2017

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:55 am

flori89 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:40 pm
seangm wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:50 pm
dermage wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm
seangm wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:22 pm
It says 200GB for the Max version, does anyone know if the installed samples can be kept on an external drive? That would be rough for my main drive. Thanks.
On Windows you can add several paths where it "looks" for its samples.
Good to know thanks.
Yes, in the installation manager you can directly tell it where to install it. Remember though to also move the installation files to a backup drive so you don't run into the 180 days download problem.
Thanks, yeah good point about keeping the install files saved on an external drive.

User avatar
machinesworking
KVRAF
4092 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Post Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:15 pm

BenfordLaw wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:56 am
machinesworking wrote:
Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:31 pm
BenfordLaw wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:56 am
So far, nobody has rebutted anything I said, but apparently I'm wrong about it all. That's how KVR work. Each new VST gets its own fanboys who can't face any criticism of it, as if it's there sister or something...
Not at all but if I'm correct you mentioned some paltry presets number, which was not even close to the amount you get, so I personally didn't think it was worth it to engage, since IMO if you criticize something it should be important that your numbers are right. :shrug:
You're not correct. " so I personally didn't think it was worth it to engage" LOL. I quoted the feeble number of presets in the Andromeda expansion, straight from IK's website. I can post a screenshot if you like. How typically KVR. You can't even read basic numbers properly, and use that as a reason for me being somehow 'wrong'. LOL!
Mostly I don't care, you're actively looking to argue, which is dull dull dull. All of the Syntronic soundbanks are tweekable, I don't worry too much about this kind of thing and didn't think your argument was that great. You flatly asked why nobody wanted to play with you, and I suppose in a way I am by responding, but in the bigger picture it's just transparent, you're upset at something in your life and need a target, the current one is IK and anyone who engages you.

On topic, personally I think the libraries are already too large with the amount of presets they have, so I'm not on your side here. If I was to have a point of debate it would be with the controls to tweek the libraries as they stand, which I guess is partially answered with the upgrade, which was obviously coming after a huge sale like we just saw. :shrug:

dmbaer
KVRAF
1509 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:43 pm

DarkStar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:09 am
Syn2 includes the Syn1 instruments, upgraded to use the Syn2 engine (and are .st4i instrument files), so you can edit them on the Edit page. "The Edit Panel is only available for new Syntronik 2 presets including the new presets created for the 22 original Syntronik synths. "
OK, this is not what I'm seeing. I did a full download of sounds (Max) to a new directory. I configured Syn2 to only see that directory. When I load a Syn1 instrument, the Edit button has a disabled look. If I click on it, I get a messaging saying the Edit function is not available for a Syn1 instrument.

Did I miss something with the install-sounds procedure?

By the way, I love the installation manager for sounds ... *so* much easier than what I experienced with ST4.

dmbaer
KVRAF
1509 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:47 pm

Here's a mystery (or maybe a bug?). I installed all Max sounds. I click on Synth Brass in the Category category with all other filters cleared, and get exactly one hit. Hmmm, pretty sure there's a lot more synth brass content than that. I remove that filter and enter "brass" in the search box, resulting in quite a few hits.
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dmbaer
KVRAF
1509 posts since 11 Nov, 2009 from Northern CA

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:52 pm

Strange behavior: I clear all filters and enter "chimes" in the search field. I get the results seen below. Three of these have nothing to do with chimes (piano, bass and tympani). If I select any of them, I get the "Instrument ST4 Error. Cannot locate Tank at path ..." message.

Coincidence?
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DarkStar
KVRAF
10057 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:13 pm

dmbaer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:43 pm
DarkStar wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:09 am
Syn2 includes the Syn1 instruments, upgraded to use the Syn2 engine (and are .st4i instrument files), so you can edit them on the Edit page. "The Edit Panel is only available for new Syntronik 2 presets including the new presets created for the 22 original Syntronik synths. "
OK, this is not what I'm seeing. I did a full download of sounds (Max) to a new directory. I configured Syn2 to only see that directory. When I load a Syn1 instrument, the Edit button has a disabled look. If I click on it, I get a messaging saying the Edit function is not available for a Syn1 instrument.

Did I miss something with the install-sounds procedure?

By the way, I love the installation manager for sounds ... *so* much easier than what I experienced with ST4.
Hmm, I lifted that quote from the web page. Could it be that "the new presets created for the 22 original Syntronik synths" are really NEW and older ones (with the same names as in the Syn1 library) are in the Syn1 format. If so, that would be a disappointment.

Can you look in the "Instruments" folder for one of the Syn2 synths and post how many .st4i and st3i files are present?
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

DarkStar
KVRAF
10057 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Post Thu Dec 02, 2021 3:49 pm

dmbaer wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 2:47 pm
Here's a mystery (or maybe a bug?). I installed all Max sounds. I click on Synth Brass in the Category category with all other filters cleared, and get exactly one hit. Hmmm, pretty sure there's a lot more synth brass content than that. I remove that filter and enter "brass" in the search box, resulting in quite a few hits.
Yep, there seems to be something iffy with the filtering. I typed in a keyword and 8 presets were listed. When I filtered on "Generation 1" there were 3, when I filtered on "Generation 2" only there were none. One for Support to investigate.
DarkStar, ... Interesting, if true
Inspired by ...

Trensharo
KVRist
183 posts since 29 Dec, 2019

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:39 am

flori89 wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:33 am
BenfordLaw wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:59 am
flori89 wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:51 pm
BenfordLaw wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:56 am
Meester Smeeeth wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:22 pm
I’m not too bothered about syntronik, I don’t really use it much myself but I can’t understand why anybody could be angry about it. There are plenty of modelled alternatives there’s literally no point complaining. Just buy what you like and ignore what you don’t.
Yes, I wonder who is "angry" about it. And we mustn't post anything negative about any products at all, ever, otherwise somebody might end up not buying them, which would be awful.
Who would buy Syntronik 2, and why? I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get, for a shedload of money, and a lot of hard drive space, and none of it sounds any better than any number of actual synth VSTis out there, which you can also do much more with (i.e. edit the presets much more than Syntronik 2 could ever allow you to.)

So far, nobody has rebutted anything I said, but apparently I'm wrong about it all. That's how KVR work. Each new VST gets its own fanboys who can't face any criticism of it, as if it's there sister or something...
I mean that's your personal opinion, what's there to rebute? If 200GB of content and 5.000 presets is "feeble" what is there even to discuss? Plenty of people also don't really care for deep sound design options, I have Falcon for that. Omnisphere is basically only used as a giant preset library by 95% of the people.

Your opinion is your opinion, S2 isn't for you, so buy something else. VV3 is still on sale for 349€: https://www.uvi.net/vintage-vault-3-upgrade-sp.html

Last day, so you better hurry.
When I said "I posted up examples of the feeble number of presets you get" I was referring to what I posted up - which was the Andromeda expansion, as an example. 200GB of content is not necessarily good IN ANY WAY. It's more hard drive space, more time to load each preset, and so on. It is not necessarily good that a synth takes up 200GB of space on your hard drive. I would only use GB of data for samples in a Kontakt library (or other sampler's library), because it's not yet possible to physically model certain sounds realistically. Everything else should be done with a synth, not with samples of a synth.
Remember Best Service Titan and Titan 2? How well did they go down?

200GB of hard drive space for 5,000 synth presets is ridiculous. I have thousands of Zebra 2 presets in about 200MB of hard drive space. It's about 5,000 presets in total.
Should I call you the apples & oranges master? Again, that this should be modeled instead of sampled is your opinion. You can have that opinion but saying "5000 presets for 200GB isn't enough because in my opinion they should model synths instead of sampling them" is a textbook example of a strawman argument.

That you have the opinion that sampled libraries aren't cutting it, isn't an objective truth. It's your opinion and an opinion in this can't be refuted, since what sounds better is completely subjective. Plenty of people prefer sampled libraries to modeled ones because to them only samples can get the full analog sound.

Spectrasonics is creating a synth made from samples. You might have heard of it before. Remind me, how well are they doing?
The #1 reason why I've been replacing IKM with other stuff is due to the unreasonable disk space requirements. It's like they still operate in a 2004 mindset where "Lots of GBs" were a marketing point. NVMe drives are not cheap, especially at 2TB+ capacities.

It's cheaper for me to buy Arturia V Collection and Upgrade to Komplete 13 Ultimate (then removing all of IKM's Sample Content) than it is to upgrade to TS3.5M for $175 because of the SSD upgrade I'd have to make.

So, that's what I've been doing.

They need to use better compression.

I don't think it's apples and oranges. Syntronik 2 <-> V Collection is a 1:1 comparison. Comparing with Omnisphere, however, is definitely apples and oranges ;-)

jdnz
KVRian
1001 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:25 am

Trensharo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:39 am
The #1 reason why I've been replacing IKM with other stuff is due to the unreasonable disk space requirements. It's like they still operate in a 2004 mindset where "Lots of GBs" were a marketing point. NVMe drives are not cheap, especially at 2TB+ capacities.
I just purchased a 1tb 980pro - and paid less for it than I paid for a 240gb 840pro (sata) end of 2013

Sure the few 4tb models available are over-priced ( due to lack of competition ) but with most motherboards having dual nvme sockets you can just stick to the affordable 1tb/2tb units.

And it's not that you really NEED the speed of nvme for sample libs anyway - the 870qvo ( sata ) is more than adequate and the $/tb is insanely low

Basically I can't see any reason anyone should care about disk space usage for sample libraries nowdays

Lbdunequest
KVRist
54 posts since 24 Sep, 2021

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:53 am

jdnz wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:25 am
Trensharo wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:39 am
The #1 reason why I've been replacing IKM with other stuff is due to the unreasonable disk space requirements. It's like they still operate in a 2004 mindset where "Lots of GBs" were a marketing point. NVMe drives are not cheap, especially at 2TB+ capacities.
Basically I can't see any reason anyone should care about disk space usage for sample libraries nowdays
If its syntronik that just has sampled synth waveforms, id care. Its just better to use any emulation.

BenfordLaw
KVRist
153 posts since 12 Nov, 2020

Post Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:05 am

jdnz wrote:
Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:25 am
I just purchased a 1tb 980pro - and paid less for it than I paid for a 240gb 840pro (sata) end of 2013

Sure the few 4tb models available are over-priced ( due to lack of competition ) but with most motherboards having dual nvme sockets you can just stick to the affordable 1tb/2tb units.

And it's not that you really NEED the speed of nvme for sample libs anyway - the 870qvo ( sata ) is more than adequate and the $/tb is insanely low

Basically I can't see any reason anyone should care about disk space usage for sample libraries nowdays
Loading times? Memory usage? Duh.

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