Cubase 12 dropping VST 2 support (For Apple Silicon)

[pdxindy]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3

"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."

Huh?

No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.

I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.

But why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?

[sQeetz]

But why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?

Because it's obsolete? Or at least I wish it should be.

[chk071]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3

"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."

Huh?

No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.

I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.

But why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?

This makes sense:

There is no VST2 SDK for Arm chips.

[SLiC]

No VST2 SDK for Arm chips....maybe the push some developers will need to go VST3...just wait until the new Apple laptop owners start nagging developers, VST3 job done

[chk071]

The "push" will come by itself. You either develop VST3, or you will lose sales.

Anyway, there seem to be some downsides to VST3 indeed, like the way it handles MIDI. E.g., BlueARP can't let MIDI thru in the VST3, and, the way I understood it from the dev's statements, there doesn't seem to be a way around it, which sucks. It means that he will have to withdraw some features for the VST3.

I really hope Steinberg will improve some things in that regard. I don't get the argumentation that the DAW has to handle MIDI, and that MIDI plugins should be coming with the DAW. What if the MIDI plugin I'm looking for doesn't exist in any DAW? Plus, there's no standard for DAW MIDI plugins. This seems to be short sighted, especially considering how many useful VST2 MIDI plugins exist.

[pdxindy]

https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3

"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."

Huh?

No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.

I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.

But why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?

This makes sense:

There is no VST2 SDK for Arm chips.

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta). Whether there is a native SDK doesn't matter for running VST2 plugins. And of course it is Steinberg who is not making an AS native SDK.

[Scotty]

I applaud the plugin developers who manage to keep afloat with all of this OS and processor development overhead.

[chk071]

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta).

Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?

And of course it is Steinberg who is not making an AS native SDK.

Well, they do. For VST3, which they still support.

[zvenx]

And Bitwig also note that Intel and ARM VSTs can run side by side – thanks to their sandboxed plug-in architecture.

https://cdm.link/2021/05/bitwig-studio- ... ilicon-m1/

Native on Apple Silicon

Bitwig Studio now runs natively on Apple Silicon, and your Intel and ARM VSTs can live alongside each other. Bitwig Studio has alway hosted plugins separately from the DAW. Now this means you can mix VST architectures as well, and just as safely.

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021 ... n-support/


rsp

[pdxindy]

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta).

Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?

I don't believe that is relevant in this case. I imagine Reaper also runs native VST2 plugins fine as well. Basically it is an arbitrary decision by Steinberg.

I guess they think since Apple users are willing to put up with it when Apple does it that they can too

[chk071]

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta).

Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?

I don't believe that is relevant in this case.

It absolutely is, because, it explains why VST2 run in Bitwig, and not natively in another DAW. See zvenx' Post.

I imagine Reaper also runs native VST2 plugins fine as well.

Imagining is not knowing. You either try it out, or you'll never know.

[zvenx]

SB also had stopped supporting 32 bit vst's in 64 bit Cubendo a few years ago.

At some point the world has to move on.

rsp

[pdxindy]

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta).

Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?

I don't believe that is relevant in this case.

It absolutely is, because, it explains why VST2 run in Bitwig, and not natively in another DAW. See zvenx' Post.

Zvenx's post is referring to running Intel plugins in Bitwig when Bitwig is running native. That works in Bitwig because Bitwig can run plugins in a separate process.

I'm talking about Apple native VST2 plugins, not Intel versions. They don't need a separate process in a DAW like Intel plugins would.

[chk071]

VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta).

Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?

I don't believe that is relevant in this case.

It absolutely is, because, it explains why VST2 run in Bitwig, and not natively in another DAW. See zvenx' Post.

Zvenx's post is referring to running Intel plugins in Bitwig when Bitwig is running native. That works in Bitwig because Bitwig can run plugins in a separate process.

Which means that... it uses a wrapper.

I'm talking about Apple native VST2 plugins, not Intel versions. They don't need a separate process in a DAW like Intel plugins would.

The question is, does Bitwig really do that. Or does it wrap/sandbox all plugins.

I can't tell. I don't use Bitwig, and I don't use a M1 Mac.

[chk071]

Here's the answer, by the way, for Reaper: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p ... ostcount=2

When using the ARM64 build, any VST3 plug-ins used will have to be ARM64 native, REAPER does not yet support VST3 bridging. Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64.

So, yeah, bridging is required for VST2 plugins. Not for VST3's which are ARM64 native.