But why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:49 pm https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3
"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."
Huh?
No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.
I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.
Cubase 12 dropping VST 2 support (For Apple Silicon)
- KVRAF
- 25446 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
- KVRAF
- 1904 posts since 8 Jan, 2005
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
This makes sense:pdxindy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:02 pmBut why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:49 pm https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3
"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."
Huh?
No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.
I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.
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- KVRAF
- 11184 posts since 2 Dec, 2004 from North Wales
No VST2 SDK for Arm chips....maybe the push some developers will need to go VST3...just wait until the new Apple laptop owners start nagging developers, VST3 job done
X32 Desk, i9 PC, S49MK2, Studio One, BWS, Live 12. PUSH 3 SA, Osmose, Summit, Pro 3, Prophet8, Syntakt, Digitone, Drumlogue, OP1-F, Eurorack, TD27 Drums, Nord Drum3P, Guitars, Basses, Amps and of course lots of pedals!
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
The "push" will come by itself. You either develop VST3, or you will lose sales.
Anyway, there seem to be some downsides to VST3 indeed, like the way it handles MIDI. E.g., BlueARP can't let MIDI thru in the VST3, and, the way I understood it from the dev's statements, there doesn't seem to be a way around it, which sucks. It means that he will have to withdraw some features for the VST3.
I really hope Steinberg will improve some things in that regard. I don't get the argumentation that the DAW has to handle MIDI, and that MIDI plugins should be coming with the DAW. What if the MIDI plugin I'm looking for doesn't exist in any DAW? Plus, there's no standard for DAW MIDI plugins. This seems to be short sighted, especially considering how many useful VST2 MIDI plugins exist.
Anyway, there seem to be some downsides to VST3 indeed, like the way it handles MIDI. E.g., BlueARP can't let MIDI thru in the VST3, and, the way I understood it from the dev's statements, there doesn't seem to be a way around it, which sucks. It means that he will have to withdraw some features for the VST3.
I really hope Steinberg will improve some things in that regard. I don't get the argumentation that the DAW has to handle MIDI, and that MIDI plugins should be coming with the DAW. What if the MIDI plugin I'm looking for doesn't exist in any DAW? Plus, there's no standard for DAW MIDI plugins. This seems to be short sighted, especially considering how many useful VST2 MIDI plugins exist.
- KVRAF
- 25446 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
VST2 plugins work natively in Bitwig on my Apple Silicon MBP... (no Rosetta). Whether there is a native SDK doesn't matter for running VST2 plugins. And of course it is Steinberg who is not making an AS native SDK.chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:07 pmThis makes sense:pdxindy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:02 pmBut why would they drop VST2 only for Apple Silicon Macs?chk071 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:49 pm https://forums.steinberg.net/t/cubase-1 ... t/748993/3
"Are you going to trash VST2?"
"Yes, that is correct. Only on Apple M1 systems VST2 plugins won't run."
Huh?
No wonder that people misinterpret their statements.
I read from Matthias Quellmann's statements the following: VST2 plugins will still run for some time in Cubase, but, at some point, Cubase will become VST3 only. Which is what we already know. Since years.
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- KVRAF
- 2945 posts since 23 Dec, 2002
I applaud the plugin developers who manage to keep afloat with all of this OS and processor development overhead.
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Could it be that Bitwig uses a plugin wrapper?
Well, they do. For VST3, which they still support.
- KVRAF
- 13224 posts since 16 Feb, 2005 from Kingston, Jamaica
https://cdm.link/2021/05/bitwig-studio- ... ilicon-m1/And Bitwig also note that Intel and ARM VSTs can run side by side – thanks to their sandboxed plug-in architecture.
https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2021 ... n-support/Native on Apple Silicon
Bitwig Studio now runs natively on Apple Silicon, and your Intel and ARM VSTs can live alongside each other. Bitwig Studio has alway hosted plugins separately from the DAW. Now this means you can mix VST architectures as well, and just as safely.
rsp
sound sculptist
- KVRAF
- 25446 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I don't believe that is relevant in this case. I imagine Reaper also runs native VST2 plugins fine as well. Basically it is an arbitrary decision by Steinberg.
I guess they think since Apple users are willing to put up with it when Apple does it that they can too
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
It absolutely is, because, it explains why VST2 run in Bitwig, and not natively in another DAW. See zvenx' Post.
Imagining is not knowing. You either try it out, or you'll never know.
- KVRAF
- 25446 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Zvenx's post is referring to running Intel plugins in Bitwig when Bitwig is running native. That works in Bitwig because Bitwig can run plugins in a separate process.
I'm talking about Apple native VST2 plugins, not Intel versions. They don't need a separate process in a DAW like Intel plugins would.
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Which means that... it uses a wrapper.pdxindy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:01 pmZvenx's post is referring to running Intel plugins in Bitwig when Bitwig is running native. That works in Bitwig because Bitwig can run plugins in a separate process.
The question is, does Bitwig really do that. Or does it wrap/sandbox all plugins.
I can't tell. I don't use Bitwig, and I don't use a M1 Mac.
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- KVRAF
- 35436 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
Here's the answer, by the way, for Reaper: https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p ... ostcount=2
So, yeah, bridging is required for VST2 plugins. Not for VST3's which are ARM64 native.When using the ARM64 build, any VST3 plug-ins used will have to be ARM64 native, REAPER does not yet support VST3 bridging. Intel VST2 plug-ins can be used (bridged) from Intel to ARM64.