Whats in the future of Grid?

[Obsolete485692]

Midi?

Yup. That's where I'd love to see it go + obviously to add some new modules in existing cathegories, like make FM easier, add granular and additive oscillators, more filters (e.g. a spectral one), MSEG. I'd love to see a feature for creating synth/fx GUI using pre-defined components, that would provide an opportunity to personalise a patch more than 8-knob Remote pages

Don't make it deeper and more complex!

Bitwig's modus operandi always was the 80/20 rule - give 80% of possible features, but make it 20% as complex as existing implementations (yes, I know that's not precisely what "80/20 rule" is ). That's why most Bitwig users can create something - simple or comlex - in Poly/FX Grid, while only small minority of Live users use M4L to develop stuff.

And that is why u r posting stuff like this heh? :viewtopic.php?t=570499

[antic604]

pic.php?t=570499

I don't see any contradiction. Have you used Reaktor Blocks? Notice I'm asking about Euro React and Toybox bundles. Most Blocks are 1 or 2 levels of abstaction higher than any Grid module, so they're easier to understand, it's just that the workflow is pretty bad comparatively. And it hasn't been evolving as a product for last couple of years, hence my hesitation.

[u-u-u]

Now with version 4.1 generating notes with the Grid got a lot easier because of the changes they did to the Multi-note device:

• The Pitch Offset and Enable parameters for each note are now updated throughout the life of a note
  • Gliding pitches can now be created, and notes can be (re)activated via each output note's Enable parameter

That basically means:

• No need anymore the ugly workaround using the Replacer device
• instead: Put a Multi-note device into the FX chain (not the Note FX chain)
• Improvement: That allows for outputting up to 8 notes per Multi-note device from the Grid (layer multiple Mulit-note devices for even more notes)
• You still need one note for triggerering (and transposing) the Multi-note output
• Modulate the Enable and Pitch Offset parameters from Grid Modulator modules
• You need to multiply pitch signals with 120 before the Modulator module to get exact semitones (for a Pitch Offset mod amount of 1.0)
• To get the notes out of the Grid's Fx chain, you still need to put a Note Receiver device behind it
• The Grid polyphony has to be set to Mono -> otherwise things could get a bit inconvenient

[Obsolete485692]

pic.php?t=570499

I don't see any contradiction. Have you used Reaktor Blocks? Notice I'm asking about Euro React and Toybox bundles. Most Blocks are 1 or 2 levels of abstaction higher than any Grid module, so they're easier to understand, it's just that the workflow is pretty bad comparatively. And it hasn't been evolving as a product for last couple of years, hence my hesitation.

You are preaching here: "Don't make it deeper and more complex! " and then searching for what OP requested elsewhere.

Sure: The same way Reaktor can be simple for vast majority, while having something more under the hood can NOT be the case in Grid. Hahaha....

Have a good one man... and take care...


EDIT: Just to keep the topic: q. generally- more or less is - can Grid get some real universal patching environment, allowing also real patcher to step in and solve issues, that particular user may have and hence come closer to real modular environment?

While I agree, that Grid should not get any much complex - deeper, because even now I am regularly crashing the limits of the Grid. It is not in many aspects precise enough for programming task, lacking good overview (specially because there are no macros etc) and CPU efficiency, but you can use that strait the way for modulation and sequencing.

But I also argue that there should some way of universal - one may say 3rd party - patching/coding/ modules messing option for patchers. That would not hurt anyone, while help a lot of people with more specifics needs and also basically help everyone, because what would patchers made could be use by everyone.
In the end it does not matter, because people will find their way anyway, so it would be better from BW to accepts this.))))

I do not consider you honest in this regard, since you preaching one thing, and than doing other... so as I ve said.. have a good one..

[antic604]

You are preaching here: "Don't make it deeper and more complex! " and then searching for what OP requested elsewhere.

Sure: The same way Reaktor can be simple for vast majority, while having something more under the hood can NOT be the case in Grid. Hahaha...

As I explained, in that other thread I was asking specifically for Reaktor Blocks, where single module is usually a combination of several Grid modules - so yes, there's no contradiction in my NOT wanting Grid to get more complex AND asking others' opinion about investing in Reason Blocks.

[Tj Shredder]

Now with version 4.1 generating notes with the Grid got a lot easier because of the changes they did to the Multi-note device:

• The Pitch Offset and Enable parameters for each note are now updated throughout the life of a note
  • Gliding pitches can now be created, and notes can be (re)activated via each output note's Enable parameter

That basically means:

• No need anymore the ugly workaround using the Replacer device
• instead: Put a Multi-note device into the FX chain (not the Note FX chain)
• Improvement: That allows for outputting up to 8 notes per Multi-note device from the Grid (layer multiple Mulit-note devices for even more notes)
• You still need one note for triggerering (and transposing) the Multi-note output
• Modulate the Enable and Pitch Offset parameters from Grid Modulator modules
• You need to multiply pitch signals with 120 before the Modulator module to get exact semitones (for a Pitch Offset mod amount of 1.0)
• To get the notes out of the Grid's Fx chain, you still need to put a Note Receiver device behind it
• The Grid polyphony has to be set to Mono -> otherwise things could get a bit inconvenient

Thanks for the tip. Now make your next tutorial before Polarity grabs the bandwidth…; - )

[dupont]

I never use grid, no time and desire to dig into the manual.
I tried once but caught a headache and thad was a stressfull experience.
It feel like a guitarist who build is on guitar instead of playing music.

[ihearanewworld]

I felt similarly overwhelmed and disinterested in the Grid until recently, when I found use for it that I couldn’t conceive of how to achieve otherwise. I ran into some issues that may be bugs in polyphonic mode, but it may also be that Bitwig’s documentation is pretty weak. I’ll have to experiment a bit more, but unwanted gate triggering caused a lot of frustration and slowdowns for me.

I do wish all the modulators from the device panel were available directly in the grid. I don’t like having to worry about signals flowing from two different windows. I understand that the philosophy behind some of the device modulators is different than in The Grid, (some are more like multi-modules), but I, (at least), would work faster and more clearly if everything were unified on one plane.

[Tj Shredder]

Midi?

Started a request on Bitwish:
https://bitwish.top/t/midi-grid/578

[dupont]

honestly, I am a licenced user of BW4 but I find it to difficult for me. i am a musician, not a sofware developper...i don't want to spent time learning this kind of logical mathematic soft, even if i am french and we are known to be good at math !

[u-u-u]

honestly, I am a licenced user of BW4 but I find it to difficult for me. i am a musician, not a sofware developper...i don't want to spent time learning this kind of logical mathematic soft, even if i am french and we are known to be good at math !

You mean, the Grid is difficult or whole BWS is difficult? Because you can use presets made by others that take the time and stay on the device level and nevertheless make great music with the software.
Also some musicians don't want to learn music theory but still manage to make great pieces.
E.g. in my case I see myself as an electronic music artist/composer so diving deeper into technical things is something I want to do as well as developing musical skills. But what I recognize is that often it's good practice to separate the sound design phase from the improvisation phase but for mixing/composing parts and layers together, the technical knowledge often comes in handy as well.

[dupont]

honestly, I am a licenced user of BW4 but I find it to difficult for me. i am a musician, not a sofware developper...i don't want to spent time learning this kind of logical mathematic soft, even if i am french and we are known to be good at math !

You mean, the Grid is difficult or whole BWS is difficult? Because you can use presets made by others that take the time and stay on the device level and nevertheless make great music with the software.
Also some musicians don't want to learn music theory but still manage to make great pieces.
E.g. in my case I see myself as an electronic music artist/composer so diving deeper into technical things is something I want to do as well as developing musical skills. But what I recognize is that often it's good practice to separate the sound design phase from the improvisation phase but for mixing/composing parts and layers together, the technical knowledge often comes in handy as well.

I mean grid is difficult, I use BW for techno live perfomance and share in instagram.

[Tj Shredder]

Even if you play cello or guitar, you got to know your instrument also in its hardware and technical aspects. You can't hide behind "its too technical" unless you are a famous rock star which can hire technicians to do your work. If you know your instrument well your music gets some extra freedom as you can do some magic with it others can't...
Knowing your instrument is part of the necessary skill set. Its on the same level as training your muscle memory and your scales etc... Its about finding the shortest path from your imagination to the music. If you reject that aspect, already your imagination is limited, that why it feels like its in the way of doing music straight... But you might be in a loop and can't look over the fence of limitations...
Being a musician is more than just playing notes...

[dupont]

Even if you play cello or guitar, you got to know your instrument also in its hardware and technical aspects. You can't hide behind "its too technical" unless you are a famous rock star which can hire technicians to do your work. If you know your instrument well your music gets some extra freedom as you can do some magic with it others can't...
Knowing your instrument is part of the necessary skill set. Its on the same level as training your muscle memory and your scales etc... Its about finding the shortest path from your imagination to the music. If you reject that aspect, already your imagination is limited, that why it feels like its in the way of doing music straight... But you might be in a loop and can't look over the fence of limitations...
Being a musician is more than just playing notes...

there is a difference between knowing your instrument and building your instrument.
I have never seen a musician (rockstar, semi pro, hobbist) ,build his guitar or piano from scratch !

[excuse me please]

Even if you play cello or guitar, you got to know your instrument also in its hardware and technical aspects. You can't hide behind "its too technical" unless you are a famous rock star which can hire technicians to do your work. If you know your instrument well your music gets some extra freedom as you can do some magic with it others can't...
Knowing your instrument is part of the necessary skill set. Its on the same level as training your muscle memory and your scales etc... Its about finding the shortest path from your imagination to the music. If you reject that aspect, already your imagination is limited, that why it feels like its in the way of doing music straight... But you might be in a loop and can't look over the fence of limitations...
Being a musician is more than just playing notes...

there is a difference between knowing your instrument and building your instrument.
I have never seen a musician (rockstar, semi pro, hobbist) ,build his guitar or piano from scratch !

Neither did I, but I thought Brian May built his own guitar (with his father if I remember well).