How important is the piano roll to you?

Plug-in hosts and other software applications discussion
chk071
KVRAF
31666 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Post Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:20 am

Erisian wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:14 am
chk071 wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:54 am
Erisian wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:47 am I see nothing wrong with encouraging discussion. Isn't that what forums are for?
Which food is good?
Piano roll.
It's my favorite meal, but, obviously KVR needs an Extrawurst again, as usual.

N__K
KVRist
178 posts since 26 Mar, 2017

Post Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:25 am

pdxindy wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:37 am
N__K wrote: Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:54 amIf I may add some potential forum drama bait ;) - I think making music has for too long been "socially prescribed" mostly to people who have cognitive and motor abilities to play physical instruments [in real-time] well enough.

Drawing (or clicking, pushing, whatever) in piano rolls, step sequencers etc. with machine playing it exactly as programmed allows far more people to make music than before.
I don't agree with that. The entrance to do that requires a computer and someone who wants to sit staring a screen and pushing buttons. That is not most of the human world.

Historically there have been lots of villages, say in Africa, where basically everyone sings, and or plays drums or other instruments and they do it individually, in groups and all together. That would be a far higher percentage of their population making music than the percentage of people programming notes on a computer.
I am under impression that nowadays majority (although probably by a slim margin) of planet's population have access to computing devices; and that smartphones are the most popular platform, like in most of Asia and increasingly Africa.
Second-hand PC hardware and "obsolete" software is an interesting factor as well.

I have no numbers to back that up however, so it's anecdotal.

Good point regarding history - there have been and still are cultures where making music is not viewed as a specialization reserved only for the most skilled.

On the other hand, where I live, I've heard too many times arguments like "I'm no good at [realtime] playing or singing so making music ain't my thing". I'm happy to see that becoming a thing of the past, as people try various apps (on various devices) that facilitate music-making, and find ways to have fun and express themselves which otherwise would not have been possible.

dufflespank
KVRer
5 posts since 15 Jan, 2022

Post Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:46 pm

Pretty important for making small edits to performance. Also love the staff notation in Reaper's piano roll

benzene
KVRist
66 posts since 12 Jan, 2006 from London

Post Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:35 pm

I use the piano roll to delete all the little mis-keyed notes adjacent to the ones I meant to play. And to fix velocities so it doesn't sound terrible.

Learning to make it full screen in Live with a keyboard shortcut has really made a big difference. Should have learned to do that ages ago.

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Yorrrrrr
KVRian
1287 posts since 25 Sep, 2011 from Colombia

Post Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:14 am

It's important, but not enough to make me need to use all of FL Studio's features (the only part of a DAW where I think FL Studio is better than anything else). So, the piano roll in Live is more than enough to me.
Last edited by Yorrrrrr on Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jonljacobi
KVRAF
1813 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:33 pm

benzene wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 3:35 pm I use the piano roll to delete all the little mis-keyed notes adjacent to the ones I meant to play. And to fix velocities so it doesn't sound terrible.

Learning to make it full screen in Live with a keyboard shortcut has really made a big difference. Should have learned to do that ages ago.
Shift+tab, or do you know something I don't? If you do, please...

benzene
KVRist
66 posts since 12 Jan, 2006 from London

Post Wed Jan 19, 2022 12:48 am

jonljacobi wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 5:33 pm Shift+tab, or do you know something I don't? If you do, please...
It's a bit of a workaround - a separate window would be nice.

To make it full screen - open up the piano roll, drag the top edge to the top of the screen, and drag the left hand side panels off to the left - it will stay like this each time it's opened.

To switch between piano roll and arrangement view - Cmd-Alt-L (or Windows equivalent). This closes/opens the bottom tab so you can use it now to switch between full screen arrangement and piano roll.

Shift tab as you mention will now toggle the instrument view with the resized piano roll.

I love working with the keyboard, don't like clicking around if I can help it.

Downangle
KVRist
41 posts since 25 Apr, 2021

Post Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:11 am

I didn't even realize Studio One had a piano roll. Everything I play is dead on rhythmically. Also, I make sure I practice even the most repetitive line over and over again for hours until I can perform it perfectly. Also, I almost never miss a note and if I do, I simply record my whole five minute performance over again perfectly the second time. All of my automation is also done flawlessly on the beat, sometimes controlling 8 or 9 parameters simultaneously using my palms and the bottoms of my feet. Frequently, I play 22 note chords in 32nd note patterns without missing. Also, I love performing orchestral sample libraries using all the keyswitches in real time to get the most accurate performances.

Why are we even talking about this? Who actually thinks the piano roll isn't important?

jonljacobi
KVRAF
1813 posts since 16 Jan, 2013 from USA

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 11:29 am

I was really hoping you knew something I didn't. I'd love a command to toggle the size of the MIDI editor from user-set to default.

I think we're discussing the piano roll because some users only edit, while others use it for entering notes on a large scale.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
33324 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:16 pm

I don't use it, except very occasionally to correct a wrongly played note

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AsPeeXXXVIII
KVRian
635 posts since 17 Aug, 2015 from Finland

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:29 pm

I spend about 25% of my music production time in the piano roll.
My solo projects:
Hekkräiser (experimental) | MFG38 (electronic/soundtrack) | The Santtu Pesonen Project (metal/prog)

xbitz
KVRAF
3750 posts since 3 Oct, 2013 from Budapest

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:27 pm

chord detection together with chord notes highlighting quite a big help in Cubase for creating proper voice leading (as a scratchpad) so I like

typically the initial versions (as I see the v1 on the video) are created by keyboard fiddling and the final voice leading with help of Cubase
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYNP1hZVfDE
luckily trance uses mainly basic/sus/seventh chords(worst cases are inversions in some open position) no needs extended ones so Cubase is able to work with 100% accuracy in the most cases

as I've experienced the methods are working nicely together ... personally I wouldn't able to create any progression using only the PR (or would be highly PITA) and wouldn't be able to finish it without using it ...

just opened one of my scratch files randomly sry for the "quality"less :D

ps. Cubase hasn't got clips but at least versioning can be used nicely
"Where we're workarounding, we don't NEED features." - powermat

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clipnotic
KVRian
714 posts since 19 Sep, 2007 from Germany

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:11 pm

wuworld wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:10 am When making music, how important is the piano roll for you? Or maybe you don't use it.
The piano roll is the most important feature if you want a fast and good workflow! :D

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Super Piano Hater 64
KVRist
296 posts since 24 Jan, 2021

Post Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:47 pm

xbitz wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:27 pm chord detection together with chord notes highlighting quite a big help in Cubase for creating proper voice leading (as a scratchpad) so I like
I wish some other hosts had this. I’m a moron when it comes to chord analysis and voice leading and I could use the help. I won’t buy Cubase, though.
I hate signatures too.

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aMUSEd
KVRAF
33324 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net

Post Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:45 am

clipnotic wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:11 pm
wuworld wrote: Sat Jan 08, 2022 6:10 am When making music, how important is the piano roll for you? Or maybe you don't use it.
The piano roll is the most important feature if you want a fast and good workflow! :D
For you maybe - for me it's much slower than recording what I play

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