What is the future of Bitwig?

[lokanchung]

I don't see Bitwig as experimental... it is fairly standard DAW with some of its own differences. Like all of them really.

Userbase has been growing well... so maybe you are wrong

Well no one switched to Bitwig around me People are trying Bitwig eventually goes back to previous DAWs.
To clarify my point, Bitwig itself isn't experimental. But it keeps focusing on experimental features.

[Tj Shredder]

Well, in my life it was always hard to switch from a known tool to a new one. The new one just isn’t known as well, and often enough I found out, the work flow is just different and often even better than with the known tool…
There must be a reason and dissatisfaction with your known tool to try out a different one. If you don’t give it enough time and do at least three full projects, you can’t really judge… And still it would be a personal preference and not an absolute claim valid for everybody… I hope in the future we will still have a lot of different DAWs and talented musicians who do their magic with them…
My preference for Bitwig is simply its potential to inspire me… Something Live never could, though in theory it would have been the perfect match for its integrated M4L (I am a Max/MSP guy…)
As I am pretty experienced with ProTools workflows, I would of course welcome enhancements in those directions… But I need them rarely anyway…
Conclusion: the future is bright… (but unknown…; - )

[pdxindy]

Well no one switched to Bitwig around me People are trying Bitwig eventually goes back to previous DAWs.

That is too small a dataset to conclude anything. And sure, lots of people will try something and go back to what they were using previously. There are plenty of people who do that with every DAW.

To clarify my point, Bitwig itself isn't experimental. But it keeps focusing on experimental features.

And that is what they want to do. If they wanted to focus on making a standard linear DAW, they would have done that. They are going to keep developing the Grid. Just like Ableton has continued to focus on M4L for the past decade. My guess is that in the next year or so they will add the ability to create custom GUI's... Like Polymer. They are committed to developing the Grid. That is not going to stop just cause some people don't use it.

They are also going to continue to add to their own devices. Again, that is not going to change regardless of whether some people don't find the new Chorus+ of use.

Then, as has been the case for a while, there will be a few additions of the type you are asking for. I would not bet on a significant change of direction. Their approach has been pretty consistent.

[j wazza]

Exactly.

While there is certainly value in updating the FX plugins, lots of people have their favorite FX plugins (especially users of this forum ). It's just as easy to load an external as an internal plugin into the device panel. Other than it might take a few more seconds to load the external plugin.

But external plugins will not substitute for improving composing usability in the arranger or midi editor or adding composing features.

but bitwigs own effects are integrated into bitwig and the grid, they can be per voice etc for poly or voice stacking, modulation of them works better etc, so for those uses its not the same as putting an external plugin after, id love to see an improved saturation/distortion for those uses

there are external midi editors and compositional tools though, while its not as easy as having it in the daw, you wouldn't miss out on any features that require integration like that etc, but im not sure about midi editor vsts that have every feature you want, there are definitely tons of compositional tools though
although the arranger can only be in the daw, what arranger features would you want?

[lokanchung]

And that is what they want to do. If they wanted to focus on making a standard linear DAW, they would have done that. They are going to keep developing the Grid. Just like Ableton has continued to focus on M4L for the past decade. My guess is that in the next year or so they will add the ability to create custom GUI's... Like Polymer. They are committed to developing the Grid. That is not going to stop just cause some people don't use it.

They are also going to continue to add to their own devices. Again, that is not going to change regardless of whether some people don't find the new Chorus+ of use.

Then, as has been the case for a while, there will be a few additions of the type you are asking for. I would not bet on a significant change of direction. Their approach has been pretty consistent.

Grid will be something amazing in a few years. Bitwig will be even greater for sound design, but it will still take forever to lay out notes and edit them.
Oh, this sound similar to.... Live! Actually this is main pain point people using Live. One or two updates dedicated to these things, can easily make them switch. And of course more people would use the grid.

And I'm not only talking about missing features. You already know what's broken in piano roll and those things are kept broken for a year or so.

Comparing to FL Studio, they have been focusing workflow improvement recently and they have covered many of its design flaws from the beginning.
IMO, Bitwig has better design from the beginning which has huge potential. Too good to be shaded by clunky editing.

[pierb]

Userbase has been growing well... so maybe you are wrong

This is anecdotal, but the impression I have is that people are trying Bitwig but then just go to another DAW.

I've seen this happen to a couple of my friends (me included).

Bitwig seems really interesting with all its new features (modulators, the grid, MPE, etc) and sound design capabilities, but then you realize it's quite clunky to actually write music.

There are so many frustrating workflow aspects like not being able to save some default settings for the piano roll. For example, stuff like displaying velocities by default. It's just mind boggling you have to display velocities and CC1 automation lane on every new track.

Of course you could argue that Bitwig (and Live) optimizes certain parts of the workflow, like say creating groups, drum racks, fx chains, etc, and that's really awesome compared to say Cubase. But, personally, when making a track I spend the majority of my time either in the piano roll, the arrangement view, or in third party plugins (U-He, Fabfilter, etc).

[j wazza]

Grid will be something amazing in a few years. Bitwig will be even greater for sound design, but it will still take forever to lay out notes and edit them.
Oh, this sound similar to.... Live! Actually this is main pain point people using Live. One or two updates dedicated to these things, can easily make them switch. And of course more people would use the grid.

And I'm not only talking about missing features. You already know what's broken in piano roll and those things are kept broken for a year or so.

Comparing to FL Studio, they have been focusing workflow improvement recently and they have covered many of its design flaws from the beginning.
IMO, Bitwig has better design from the beginning which has huge potential. Too good to be shaded by clunky editing.

what do you mean editing the piano roll takes forever? laying out notes in bitwig is easy, i found ableton quite clunky and unintuitive but bitwig i dont see a problem with, i came from fl studio and find bitwig equally easy to use

Userbase has been growing well... so maybe you are wrong

There are so many frustrating workflow aspects like not being able to save some default settings for the piano roll. For example, stuff like displaying velocities by default. It's just mind boggling you have to display velocities and CC1 automation lane on every new track.

thats true, its only one click but should have at least the option to always show velocities, or just have it by default

[SLiC]

The funny thing is if use are used to other DAWS like Bitwig using FL Studio feels really weird and and a bit menu heavy when you first switch (I bought it for the first time about a year ago). It's a long a learning curve for someone not familiar with the FL paradigm, but there are some really cool editing tricks once you know how to use then. FL can be very fast once you know what you are doing, but it's a bugger to switch from/between if you use lots of DAWS!

I would say Bitwig is more intuitive (normal!) for most users in the piano roll, it has 90% of whta I need most of the time and I can remember how to use it! DAWS like Cubase/S1 still have better midi editing for non-pattern based music and articulation based midi.

[pierb]

thats true, its only one click but should have at least the option to always show velocities, or just have it by default

Showing velocities is one click, but what if you want to also show CC1 and adjust the height of the lanes? On. Every. New. Track.

Plus the CC lanes have a minimum height that is just too tall and they eat a big chunk of the space. Good luck if you want to use 4 CC lanes. In most DAWs you can make the lanes as tall as you need.

Or every time you add a new sample to the drum rack the piano roll switches to a folded view and you have to manually change to the non folded view.

Or that new notes take the length of the last note you wrote. Good luck if the last note was 4 bars long.

Or when you disable note audio previews you can no longer click on the piano roll to the left and hear the notes.

There are tons of bad UX stuff like this when using the piano roll.

[pdxindy]

Grid will be something amazing in a few years. Bitwig will be even greater for sound design, but it will still take forever to lay out notes and edit them.

I can lay out notes quickly and efficiently in Bitwig. I have no trouble editing them either. Bitwig is never an impediment to my creativity in that way.

Maybe it is because I don't spend my time comparing this or that DAW and wishing it were different and just get to it. I'm fast in Bitwig now.

[pdxindy]

Oh, this sound similar to.... Live! Actually this is main pain point people using Live.

And yet Live is the most widely used DAW today.

I mean no offense, but your words show your mindset. It is not a pain to use Live piano roll which was my DAW before Bitwig. All these DAW's are great and can accomplish most anything. You find it a pain cause you suffer from constant comparison instead of just getting good with what you have and getting on with it.

You do not enjoy Bitwig's piano roll cause you are stuck in comparison and always trying to avoid work thus making the work unpleasant. I enjoy Bitwig's piano roll cause I just focus on the pleasure of accomplishing my tasks and I find the work enjoyable.

[pdxindy]

Or that new notes take the length of the last note you wrote. Good luck if the last note was 4 bars long.

Alt-click new note follows the grid instead of the previous note.

Basically, you are fighting inside yourself... between how you think it should be and how it is. So of course it feels inefficient to you. If you stop comparing then you can get quite fast using Bitwig and the piano roll cause you are no longer fighting inside.

And of course over time, various workflow improvements will happen... but they are not necessary to enjoy it as is and be creative.

[liquidsound]

Basically, you are fighting inside yourself... between how you think it should be and how it is.

Exactly. What’s the point in using a tool that frustrates you when there are so many great available options out there.

Bitwig IS Bitwig and it propose a “Bitwig Way” of working. As there are obvious workflow obstacles, there are amazing aspects totally unique to it.

Here comes the wisdom of not comparing Bitwig with other daws but compare yourself with Bitwig AND other daws.

You, the musician-user, is the focus.

[pierb]

Alt-click new note follows the grid instead of the previous note.

Basically, you are fighting inside yourself... between how you think it should be and how it is. So of course it feels inefficient to you. If you stop comparing then you can get quite fast using Bitwig and the piano roll cause you are no longer fighting inside.

Alt click is not a solution.

It creates a new note when clicking with the arrow or uses the paint mode when using pencil. Which means that after using alt + click you now have to also drag the note to have the desired note length. And don't get me started with the false clicks on the loop selection instead of the end of the note when dragging.

The best solution would simply be that Bitwig didn't assume any note length and you could click and drag with the pencil to draw the desired note length, every time.

It doesn't feel inefficient. It is objectively inefficient.

[pierb]

I mean no offense, but your words show your mindset. It is not a pain to use Live piano roll which was my DAW before Bitwig. All these DAW's are great and can accomplish most anything. You find it a pain cause you suffer from constant comparison instead of just getting good with what you have and getting on with it.

You do not enjoy Bitwig's piano roll cause you are stuck in comparison and always trying to avoid work thus making the work unpleasant. I enjoy Bitwig's piano roll cause I just focus on the pleasure of accomplishing my tasks and I find the work enjoyable.

No offense but your armchair philosophy is really out of place here.