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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
6019 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Fri May 13, 2022 2:54 am

fairlyclose wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:31 am I am a little tempted by Max because of all the great devices for it so that is disappointing to hear of your problems. I will make sure to give it a solid demo.
On a happy note - the new BlueCat Connector can connect any audio programs via its ASIO driver. I have it working for Auxture and looks like it will work for giorgio sancristoforo Substantia. So Max should just plug in to your DAW - but not like rewire
Yeah, be sure to test it on your machine.
The sequencer is probably a bit less of an issue since it can use LoopMidi, but I'm not too keen on external audio apps on PC.
But this guy definitely creates amazing tools! :-)
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

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bharris22
KVRAF
2275 posts since 3 Mar, 2010

Post Fri May 13, 2022 3:01 am

ThomasHelzle wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 2:04 am
bharris22 wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:56 am Just curious - what is the issue with Max?
a.) It somehow doesn't work well on my computers. His other device, Granurise, is unusable for me, as are all other Max Devices I try.
b.) It is slow as f#ck to load for me. Takes several minutes (again, Granurise).
c.) It's a standalone instead of a plugin with all the issues that has.
I don' use/have Live.
Understood. It doesn't really work well for me either. Glad to hear I'm not alone.

dopet
KVRist
216 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA

Post Tue May 17, 2022 4:05 pm

dopet wrote: Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:38 am
BluesMuse wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:36 pm I stumbled on this in the Bitwig forum. Futurephonic Rhythmizer looks interesting. VST3 only (and I think Max4Live).

https://www.futurephonic.co.uk/categories/software

A Bitwig user created a preset for BW 4.1 that does a similar function. Following is the link to that thread.

viewtopic.php?p=8407631&hilit=Rhythmizer#p8407631
Cool find! Somewhat reminds me of the reason rack extension RND from Lectric Panda. Or at least one of the 4 ‘cells’ from RND. Per Lectric Panda devices there are lots of settings/tweaks (some pretty esoteric!), so this one has caught my eye for ease of use/fun factor.

May have to demo!
I’m replying to myself. :). I finally watched the bitwig video (since I’m demoing bitwig at the moment) and I was able to pretty easily recreate that. I’ve been demoing Rhythmizer as well and I kind of like the additional control you can achieve in bitwig (maybe no surprise there). I don’t feel it does everything as simply as rhythmizer, but it is pretty musical sounding/feeling.

I just now started to see if one couldn’t get similar results using the HY Seq bundle with the Euclidean mode. The key to the bitwig version is lots of modulation behind the scenes and the HY stuff is pretty flexible that way…. Not unlimited though. The HY seq has a ‘note probability’ device and a ‘lock to scale device’ which helps in the endeavor. I wish the ‘play heads’ of the Euclidean sequencer in the HY package had a bit more independent control. I can get the flavor… not a 1:1 replica.

Anyhow I’m at a soccer game so this was a little short and choppy. Ask any questions and I will try to get more detailed if needed.

Musical Gym
KVRAF
5645 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1

Post Tue May 17, 2022 4:16 pm

^I'd be interested in seeing how you do it in Bitwig if you want to share.

dopet
KVRist
216 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA

Post Wed May 18, 2022 10:48 am

Hey @Musical Gym,

On that particular video he does a good job of walking thru the devices, etc. I don't know when I may be able to carve out some time to make a little video, but I'm not sure how much I would be able to add. :) I'll spell everything out below as best I can....

Here, you can find a link to a Bitwig 'project' where the device is loaded up, so you can at least get a starting point for your own customization:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1a9L30j ... sp=sharing

Hopefully, you will all have access... Just let me know if not.

You can open up the Chain to see the devices and fine tune them to your needs.
The devices are:

Note Repeat - Euclid Mode

Note Length - internal modulator mapped to milliseconds (not tempo synced. Default setting of 60ms)

Quantize - Used to constrain the time subdivisions (1 bar, 8th notes, etc). This has a great feature called 'Forgiveness' that lets other time divisions 'leak in' giving more variations.

Note FX Selector - This is a 'Container Device' (took me a bit to find it) and is probably the most complicated (and maybe most important) device here. Basically, this container can hold any number of bitwig note fx and switch between them via different modes. This is used to trigger +/- 1 or 2 octaves leaps (using Note Transpose FX). This will also catch 'notes in between' the octaves as the semitone parameter is modulated by something like a smooth sample and hold. This device is in the Round Robin mode (every note on event moves to the next note fx). There are other modes available. I have this one cycling thru:

- Blank (Note Transpose device turned off)
- Blank (Note Transpose device turned off)
- +/- 24 (Note Transpose set to +1 / internal modulator (bi polar) affecting 'Semi' parameter about 24 steps.)
- Blank (Note Transpose device turned off)
- +/- 12 (Note Transpose set to 0 / internal modulator (bi polar) affecting 'Semi' parameter about 12 steps.)
- + 12 (Note Transpose set to +1 / No Modulations)
- As you can see many, many options to tweak and add to taste!

Transpose Map (off by default) - Sometimes I like to constrain the notes being output to just a few so its not so 'random sounding'. You can fiddle with that one to make it how you like it.

Key Filter - This is where you pick the root note and scale to constrain the final note output. Has a cool 'Mode Shift' parameter that shifts the notes by semitone ... basically starting on a different scale note other than the root selected.

I do have some macros already mapped (there are 2 pages so far). They are:

PAGE 1:
Rhythm - On/Off (note repeater (Euclidian sequencer) on or off)
Length Mod - On/Off (Note Length FX device on or off)
Pitch Mod - On/Off (Note FX Selector device on or off)
Pattern Length - Controls the pattern length of the Euclid sequencer (how many beats in the sequencer)
Chance - Controls the chance parameter of the Euclid sequencer (basically the chance that a note will actually sound)
Density - Controls the Density parameter of the Euclid sequencer (how many note pulses will there actually be on those beats set above)
Accent - Controls the note accent feature of the Euclidian sequencer
Rotate - Rotates the whole Euclidian sequencer to move the beats around or off the '1' (or downbeat) so to speak.

PAGE 2:
Key Selector - Chooses the main key (root note) for the Key Filter FX.
Scale Selector - Chooses the main scale for the Key Filter FX.
Scale Offset - Moves the 'Mode Shift' parameter of the Key Filter FX.
Quantize - Turns off/on the Quantize FX for note value
Timing Selector - Selects the time division (1/8 note, 1/4 note, etc) for the Quantize FX
Forgiveness - Controls the amount of Forgiveness in the Quantize FX

I hope this is helpful! I cannot take credit for this invention. :) I really just used what I saw in that video to recreate /tweak this. I tried to explain most things because I had some troubles trying to figure out what things did or their potential usefulness at first.

Let me know if you have any questions!

Musical Gym
KVRAF
5645 posts since 24 May, 2004 from []1

Post Wed May 18, 2022 12:11 pm

^Thanks very much Anthony. I appreciate you taking the time and providing all the detail.
Jim

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Boy Wonder
KVRist
174 posts since 30 Jan, 2021

Post Wed May 18, 2022 7:05 pm

My favorite midi effects are two free ones from CodeFN42 - RandARP and Transition. Perfect for generative ambience stuff.

dopet
KVRist
216 posts since 13 Jul, 2005 from Longview, WA

Post Thu May 19, 2022 5:59 am

Boy Wonder wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 7:05 pm My favorite midi effects are two free ones from CodeFN42 - RandARP and Transition. Perfect for generative ambience stuff.
Yes…. RandARP…. I think I have that in the archives here. I can’t recall if I ever used it though? I remember downloading it because it seemed cool. Will have to take another look. Thanks for the reminder. :)

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
6019 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Thu May 19, 2022 3:35 pm

I retired almost all my midi plugins - Bitwig 4.x does most of it out of the box or with a little work in the Note Grid.
Some plugins may combine stuff nicely in a pretty GUI, but non of them have as deep a modulation system or feel as integrated with everything else and as tweakable.
And the built in effects and instruments also get better and better...

Good times :-)

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
Topic Starter
5263 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Post Thu May 19, 2022 5:58 pm

ThomasHelzle wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 3:35 pm I retired almost all my midi plugins - Bitwig 4.x does most of it out of the box or with a little work in the Note Grid.
Some plugins may combine stuff nicely in a pretty GUI, but non of them have as deep a modulation system or feel as integrated with everything else and as tweakable.
And the built in effects and instruments also get better and better...

Good times :-)

Cheers,

Tom
Just curious, if you have the time, which you got rid off and which you kept.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
7325 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Post Thu May 19, 2022 8:53 pm

What the Midi Grid in Bitwig can‘t do, will do PlugData… Anyway PlugData, though in a very early stage, develops into a valid alternative to M4L, except for the UI which is more limited…

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ThomasHelzle
KVRAF
6019 posts since 9 Dec, 2008 from Berlin

Post Fri May 20, 2022 8:33 am

Kalamata Kid wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 5:58 pm Just curious, if you have the time, which you got rid off and which you kept.
What I'll keep is things like Scaler 2, that is one very deep and interesting approach to looking at chords, very well laid out and containing a huge collection of progressions and playing styles. Also well maintained so far.
I also enjoy Phrasebox - I could probably recreate it in Bitwig now, but it's very well targeted in what it does.
Stepic is also very nice for quickly building a sequence and has interesting things built in that make it a very focused tool in that area and a joy to use for me.
So it's mostly tools that have a great GUI for a specific task or offer good content.

What I no longer use are the ton of tiny tools I had gathered over the years, like the whole PIZMIDI collection or all those specific sequency and arpeggiaty things - all of that I can do directly in Bitwig now.
Also all randomisation helpers, euclidean sequencers, almost all Reaktor tools (too much overhead and cumbersome GUI) etc.
My own "Toms Midi Mangler" that I had recreated in Reaktor, Architect and Falcon is no longer needed.

I sold Architect a while ago. I didn't gel with the way it works and the development is so glacial (I followed all of those initial two endless threads here on KVR before it even got into Beta, where it idles now for ~3 years). Everything I personally hoped to do in there I can do in the Note Grid without bothering with event order (which killed Architect for me as well as Reaktor for live Midi modification).

In the past I was also concerned about having all my tools in all my DAWs, so I leaned more onto plugins, but I am a One-DAW person now for a couple of years (had them all in the past), so if Bitwig can do it, I'm good.
I also no longer lust for other DAWs or Node based Midi-Systems as I always did in the past.

So yeah, a lot of tools didn't make it to my new OS installation ;-)
Would need to be something rather special to catch my eye now.

Cheers,

Tom
"Out beyond the ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field. I’ll meet you there." - Rumi
ScreenDream|Thomas Helzle 8) Twitter

Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
Topic Starter
5263 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Post Fri May 20, 2022 11:15 am

Thanks Tom,
I have a hard time getting rid of any software.
Your post encouraged me to possible try it some day.

Kalamata Kid
KVRAF
Topic Starter
5263 posts since 27 Jul, 2001 from Tarpon Springs, Florida, USA

Post Fri May 20, 2022 3:52 pm

Adam Rogers of Venomode stated in the Computer Music magazine “There is a suite of midi plugins in development which are designed to work well together starting with Phrasebox 2 later this year.” Looking forward to the Phrasebox 2 release.
Venomode.com

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Britishboxer
KVRer
10 posts since 11 May, 2022

Post Tue May 24, 2022 2:53 am

Logic Pro has all this built into it as well as cubists iOS

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