Have we reached the end of hardware synths with software plug-ins?

[Atlatnesiti]

…. And there is that… went out of sync @ about 5 min into performance, but got back on track eventually
Bottom line, brilliant performance
https://youtu.be/PUl1ZTka06Y

[BONES]

I just skipped through it, because it sounded pretty bad, but it seemed like an awful lot of gear, considering how little there was to the electronics.

[vurt]

i don't think you have to use everything in the studio, on every piece.

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

I play piano with one finger
I will buy and use hardware synth for sound design and production,if some day hear superior sound and see better workflow build in,but this probably will never happened,so hardware synths r just a another hobby for people with well paid job imho:)
Cheers

i don't even know where to begin, so ill just

Begin with brain surgery,if successful you are wellcome :):)

[vurt]

I play piano with one finger
I will buy and use hardware synth for sound design and production,if some day hear superior sound and see better workflow build in,but this probably will never happened,so hardware synths r just a another hobby for people with well paid job imho:)
Cheers

i don't even know where to begin, so ill just

Begin with brain surgery,if successful you are wellcome :):)

im not qualified, but if you lie down ill give it a go, can't make things any worse at least

[vurt]

here's why your opinion is wrong.
ive not worked for years, due to illness, my income is benefits, around 12k a year.
this, i have built up in the past 5 years, as being stuck in the house, most of the time, i like to keep entertained.

Screenshot_2022-05-23-22-06-05-362~2.jpg

.
and yes, even the bnib collectables have been added in the past 5. only the theremin is older.

[pdxindy]

And those who want more nostalgia buy hardware because they just love the feeling?

In most cases it is nothing to do with nostalgia. Hardware has real world advantages for many people and their requirements.

I think the argument is strange. I wonder if people ask the same thing on guitar forums about guitars being obsolete?

Actual instruments are not going to disappear. The tactile pleasure of a dedicated physical user interface is something software cannot (at least currently) match.

[pdxindy]

Also, some instruments, there is no software equivalent! The gorgeous sound of the original PPG Wave has never been effectively duplicated as a plugin. Now there is a new Wave inspired hardware synth which just got leaked. 3rd Wave by a new company Groove Synthesis. If it nails the tone of the original, then if you want that specific character, hardware is it.

Same with the original Waldorf Microwave 1. There is no software synth that catches the sonic character of the original. Now there is the Waldorf M, which duplicates the osc's and uses a different analog filter and analog VCA's. I haven't come across a software synth that can match the sound, especially in the bottom end. Again, if you want that sound, hardware is it.

[Uncle E]

Some people just prefer 'real' to 'virtual' and dislike sitting down at a desk with a computer and mouse like a glorified accountant! (no offence to accountants)

Imagine a synth that works like Excel. Yes, you are dead now and you didn't go to the good place.

[Uncle E]

I have hardware on stage because I think it looks cool. It's basically set decoration.

That reminds me of Liam Howlett surrounded by 3 keyboard racks and only playing the Nord Lead the entire show.

Wait on, first you say you don't want to feel like an accountant, now you're suggesting softsynths would be better if they were more like spreadheets.

Ah, great minds and all that. Wait, if I'm starting to think like BONES, that's probably a bad sign...

comparatively few slave themselves to a hardware paradigm if there's a better way to do something.

If they know about the better way. Many don't. Not only do they not know, they don't want to know and that's not a bad thing. Just get on with making music and stop worrying about it.

Think of all the beatboxers using looper pedals. We can all think of a hundred ways to do it more efficiently, more flexibly, less expensively, and with better sound quality, yet there they are making cool sounds, inventing new techniques, and mastering their craft.

[Uncle E]

…. And there is that… went out of sync @ about 5 min into performance, but got back on track eventually
Bottom line, brilliant performance
https://youtu.be/PUl1ZTka06Y

Thank you, that made my morning!

[Uncle E]

Hardware has real world advantages for many people and their requirements.

Also, replicating hardware is like having the UI design and market research done for you. The Minimoog interface is a very good interface! Why not copy it? You can get some of the exact same sounds from a Micromoog but the Micromoog interface is absolute crap, and that's an easy lesson for developers that they don't have to learn the hard way (by releasing a flop product).

With that said, the faux wood grain can go.

[machinesworking]

Jesus H. f**king Christ! That's not an "appeal to authority" argument, it's stating a f**king fact. It was a work computer, it was locked down tight, only the engineering guys with their admin passwords could change anything. Have you never had a f**king job?

Losing it and not addressing what I said doesn't change anything. The latest versions of those mice work under Mac OS, you made a big deal out of your favorite mouse not working under Mac OS, you're wrong, your anecdotal evidence is easily disproven, at least in the latest versions of that cyberpunk gaming mouse you love. This falls into the category of "doesn't matter at all" and look how worked up you get?

What's random is some guy who claims mice are superior then sticks to it no matter what is presented.

I'm not arguing, obviously you know what works for you better than I do, I'm just sayiing that choosing one thing to do with touch, something that is no easier, harder, more or less important than a thousand other things you might do, seems f**king random to me. If anything, I was making an excuse for my previous assumptionn.

One of the reasons Microsoft are a non starter as a company that changes the way people work is clear. They cannot for the life of themselves sell or explain a tech in a way that makes it at all appealing. Gates was all in on touch when he was there, and he couldn't get any motion at all going on it. I blame a couple things, people are conservative by nature, they don't like change. That said if it's presented as completely new, they must have it! The Surface is a better idea than the iPad, but the iPad presents itself as completely different than Mac OS, it attempts to get rid of the computer keyboard entirely, and most people love this. Conversely the Surface doesn't attempt to get rid of the keyboard or trackpad even and this leaves people confused. Apple for whatever reason refuse to integrate the two, probably because they know how easily confused the general public is, and iPad sales prove them right. That said, my touch screen is a hack it's using trackpad gestures and Mackie Control surface support to get multi touch support on Mac OS.

Things like mixing at the end, and real time manipulation of soft synths for patch design, these are areas of workflow where it's patently obvious once you use touch screens, that it's better. None of this has anything to do with whether the music is better, or the final product, it's comparable to saying a 16 core Ryzen is better than a 6 core i7, it doesn't impact the end product, it's just one makes the job a little easier. Microsoft are right, especially IMO for tasks like music making in a DAW, touch screens without ditching the OS and keyboard to the curb are better. They just can't create any sort of traction for anything really.

Being right handed I use the left to interact with the VSTi on screen while playing the VSTi with the right, this is sloppy at best with a mouse, unless you're using your non dominant hand to play the keys, which isn't ideal at all.

I'm left-handed but I use a mouse with my right and I play equally poorly with either hand. I can;'t say that those are two things I ever need to do at the same time, though.

Sure, because it's uncomfortable and awkward with a mouse and a controller keyboard. Previously here I would write the phrase into the DAW and fine adjust the sound to the loop etc. but once you get used to being able to write the sound first as you play, it changes things.

7 degrees is even better.

Except I have to reach across the keyboard to get at it, so I can't rest my hand or wrist, which makes it just as floaty as the main screen.

Yeah that's the one downsides to the tiny screen on the Zenbooks. The angle facilitates fine movement, it's why no one uses an Andriod or iPhone at a 90º angle, and no one complains about a 2 1/2 x 5" screen. Maybe your hands are more shaky than mine? at the right angle touch screens require no wrist support, like a smart phone. I think we've talked about it before, but the Zenbook was on my radar, but certain things seemed a bit awkward, don't like the trackpad placement either.

Not surprising that if I where you I wouldn't touch a mouse much with the Zenbook you have, that second tinier screen would mostly have the mixer parked there, it's trivial to use a modifier to get fine fader adjustments.

"Modifier"? I use the extra screen for the piano roll because its height isn't well suited to the mixer in S1 - it's either not tall enough or there's too much wasted space.

"modifier" key, i.e. shift or alt etc. depending on the DAW.
Probably by the time I'm dead OS and software engineers will figure out how to adjust sizes of GUIs for every screen they will live on.

You have the future right there in front of you and refuse to use it.

I'd do it that way if it was better but it's not so I'd just be doing it because I can, which is the definition of stupid.

Again, your particular setup isn't looking to great for touch screen, tiny screens that you have a hard time using. The other part is again, change is not fun for some people.

I would say the same thing about mice as mixing tools, especially towards the end when you're looking at the mixer on the screen in your DAW.

I'm always looking at my mixer. It is visible 100% of the time I am working. After all, it is the centre of your workflow, everything comes out of, and goes back into, the mixer.

Personally I use the track channel strip and tracks arrangement page (or whatever your DAW calls it), the second screen alternates between the full mixer and the MIDI editor.

[Uncle E]

The Surface is a better idea than the iPad, but the iPad presents itself as completely different than Mac OS, it attempts to get rid of the computer keyboard entirely, and most people love this.

Also, those first versions of Surface were terrible and it's pretty hard to change public perception after that. The first iPad was limited but pretty much flawlessly delivered on what it promised.

Another thing, at least by the time the Surface 2 was released, there were already excellent Ultrabooks that worked better, cost less (half the price!), and were more powerful.

That said, my touch screen is a hack it's using trackpad gestures and Mackie Control surface support to get multi touch support on Mac OS.

Sorry, are you referring to Raven?

[machinesworking]

And those who want more nostalgia buy hardware because they just love the feeling?
Am i right?

People who buy hardware are often musicians that play live and/or value the integrated and immediate hands on optimised for 1 thing approach of hardware. Some people just prefer 'real' to 'virtual' and dislike sitting down at a desk with a computer and mouse like a glorified accountant! (no offence to accountants)

This makes me once again realize how many of you have desk jobs. I work construction and make a tiny amount of money working out peoples music setups. The amount of time I'm in front of a computer for work VS music is probably directly inverse to most of you.

I also started off on computers. I primarily play guitar, but I gravitated to soft synths as soon as I could. Not knocking hardware, I still have three hardware synths, but I'm not that fond of the maintenance, and for 90% of the sounds I want to use, soft synths are as good or better.

Flatly, there is nothing in hardware as powerful as Falcon, no sampler as deep as Kontakt or any of the other flagship samplers. Analog emulation and distortion are two areas where I still think hardware beats software, but software is chipping away at it, mostly it's about tactile controls and peoples aversion to computers becuase they sit in front of them at work with spreadsheets.