CLAP 1.0 betas for ACE, Diva, Hive, MFM 2.5

[cb8rwh]

So I just tried the Diva CLAP beta and compared the CPU usage to the VST2 version in latest Bitwig beta. The CLAP version seems to use quite a bit more CPU. This is a preset called BS Beauty Pad, set to Divine and playing 5 notes. I reckon somewhere around 35% more. Multicore was turned on.

Is this expected? I get that it is an initial beta so things are likely to change over time.

[teilo]

OK. First bug report.

On all u-he synths, and Monique (but not Surge XT), notes with a velocity of 0 do not sound at all, even on an INIT patch.

On monique, this is a remnant of it being a pretty old synth which assumes 'midi on vel 0 is actually midi off'.

I'll stick an issue in the monique repo. Thanks for the report!

Isn't treating a note on with velocity 0 as a note off the expected behavior according to the MIDI standard?

Technically yes, but no. The host is supposed to resolve running status for a plugin so that it does not get Note On, 0 Vel messages that mean "Note Off". A plugin should never treat Note On 0 Vel as Note Off.

[pdxindy]

So I just tried the Diva CLAP beta and compared the CPU usage to the VST2 version in latest Bitwig beta. The CLAP version seems to use quite a bit more CPU. This is a preset called BS Beauty Pad, set to Divine and playing 5 notes. I reckon somewhere around 35% more. Multicore was turned on.

Is this expected? I get that it is an initial beta so things are likely to change over time.

Try turning multicore off

[EvilDragon]

On monique, this is a remnant of it being a pretty old synth which assumes 'midi on vel 0 is actually midi off'.

But this is how it should always be assumed for vel 0, of course.

I know that's tongue in cheek, but no. Piano vs organ. A velocity of 0 means you pressed the key very slowly, but you still pressed the key, and it should still sound. Also, the VST versions do not do this.

Wut? This is the first I hear of it. By MIDI standard, note on velocity of 0 is regarded as note off, always.

A plugin should never treat Note On 0 Vel as Note Off.

Yes they should especially if they deal with raw MIDI stream directly, instead of a VST3-like abstraction of MIDI.

[teilo]

With further testing, my keyboard (KK S61 MK2) is correctly sending vel 001 on those notes. Bitwig shows the lowest possible velocity value in the editor, which is 001. At that value, the synths are receiving the data (the MIDI light flashes), but no note sounds.

This is definitely a bug. With the same MIDI data the u-he VSTs sound, the u-he CLAPs do not. I don't know if this is a host bug, or a plugin bug. I only know that Surge works fine.

I apologize for the incorrect info.

[Double Tap]

Can't see Ableton on the list - is that likely to change, do you think?

[cb8rwh]

So I just tried the Diva CLAP beta and compared the CPU usage to the VST2 version in latest Bitwig beta. The CLAP version seems to use quite a bit more CPU. This is a preset called BS Beauty Pad, set to Divine and playing 5 notes. I reckon somewhere around 35% more. Multicore was turned on.

Is this expected? I get that it is an initial beta so things are likely to change over time.

Try turning multicore off

Ok, so that brings them in line performance wise, but the CPU for both is way worse when turning off multicore.

EDIT - no it doesn't I used to instances of CLAP. Using VST2 is still better than CLAP with multicore turned off.

[EvilDragon]

With further testing, my keyboard (KK S61 MK2) is correctly sending vel 001 on those notes. Bitwig shows the lowest possible velocity value in the editor, which is 001. At that value, the synths are receiving the data (the MIDI light flashes), but no note sounds.

This is definitely a bug. With the same MIDI data the u-he VST sounds, the u-he CLAP does not.

I apologize for the incorrect info.

That definitely does sound like a bug indeed!

[beely]

Wut? This is the first I hear of it. By MIDI standard, note on velocity of 0 is regarded as note off, always.

Indeed - a velocity of zero is not "very slow", it's "zero speed" - no note was pressed, and a note on with zero velocity has been used as a substitute for note off messages since the 80s (as it has some efficiency savings to not change the status byte and use running status.)

1 is very slow - slowest you can get. None more slow...
0 is right out...

[tasmaniandevil]

Ok, so that brings them in line performance wise, but the CPU for both is way worse when turning off multicore.

In our tests so far, the VST3 and CLAP version were pretty equal when used without the multicore feature.
The thread pool improvements in CLAP come in handy when you are using multiple instances of the plugin with activated multicore feature.

[cb8rwh]

Ok, so that brings them in line performance wise, but the CPU for both is way worse when turning off multicore.

In our tests so far, the VST3 and CLAP version were pretty equal when used without the multicore feature.
The thread pool improvements in CLAP come in handy when you are using multiple instances of the plugin with activated multicore feature.

Sorry I was mistaken, when getting the same outcome I had used 2 instances of CLAP.

When comparing VST2 and CLAP, VST2 is quite a bit better with either Multicore activated or deactivated.

[tasmaniandevil]

With further testing, my keyboard (KK S61 MK2) is correctly sending vel 001 on those notes. Bitwig shows the lowest possible velocity value in the editor, which is 001. At that value, the synths are receiving the data (the MIDI light flashes), but no note sounds.

That definitely does sound like a bug indeed!

We noticed this too, Bitwig doesn't seem to play notes with a velocity of 1. This works ok in Reaper.
But for our plugins it's the same behaviour in all plugin formats, VST2, VST3 and CLAP.

[tasmaniandevil]

When comparing VST2 and CLAP, VST2 is quite a bit better with either Multicore activated or deactivated.

Have you tried how many VST2 instances you can play with activated multicore vs how many instances of CLAP you can play at the same time with activated multicore feature?

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Oh, I totally agree but BlueCat doesn’t do this or Acustica. They stick crap (excuse me, “resources”) in the plugin folder. Drives me nuts. If some developers will insist, then they should at least be creating subfolders for their company and then another for each product so as not to create a mess of files in the root folders.

Oh wow. That is pretty bad. Ugh!

Yeah, sometimes it's not just the end users who insist on doing weird sh*t and putting files all over the place; some developers do this too.

Every time I launch Reaper for the first time each day, it has to scan each file in the BlueCat resource folders in my VST Plugins folders. Takes a few seconds, but enough to be annoying. I reported it and asked they used shared resources in ProgramData or Documents, but the response was that users would want the flexibility of having different skins for each plugin type [or something like that - I'm going off memory]. Which sounded crazy to me at the time! And Acustica is just gonna Acustica. User experience just doesn't seem like a priority for them IMO.

[zvenx]

They aren't the only one..Alas.
rsp