Pigments 3.5 vs Dune 3.5

[CausticPuppy]

For one thing, if you're using the FX built in to a preset (and they are part of the patch) and you want more than 1 layer through the same FX chain, you cannot do that using multiple instances in a DAW.

Sure you can... easy in Bitwig (or Live and some other DAW's)

If you want to modulate the mix between layers, it's much easier to do that within the plugin itself, particularly if the modulation source is something within the plugin rather than a MIDI CC.

Doing that is trivial and fast in Bitwig or Live.

And all this stuff works with every VST instrument and FX. It is more powerful to do in Bitwig and better workflow and visual feedback as well.

I think every DAW should have this sort of capability cause it just makes more sense at the DAW level.

I know Bitwig and Live have more thorough modulation capabilities than Logic; and those are based on the parameters exposed by the plugins.

However on Ableton Live (Lite... the version I have) I wasn't able to figure out how to modulation one plugin from another, for example modulate Pigments filter cutoff from an MSEG within Dune 3.

And by "same FX chain" I mean within a plugin.

For example I also figure out how to route Pigments audio out through Repro5's FX chain. As far as I know that's only possible if the plugin supports audio in, which a few do (like Cherry Audio's 2600 emulation) but most don't.

Now if you're talking about building "modular" patches using various plugins and the DAW's built-in modulators and other FX plugins, yeah that's a different story. That's really cool but it's not really what I was talking about.

Maybe it requires a bit more of a deep dive than what's in the manuals.

[CausticPuppy]

I don't use DUNE much because I don't like it's workflow at all and I don't use Pigments at all because I don't think it's sound is quite up there. So my advice would be if you want a synth that's really easy to work with, choose Pigments but if sound quality matters more to you, choose DUNE. In the end it's really that simple, I think.

I don't even think Pigments is the easiest to work with. I think it's too far in the other direction; where Dune3 is too static without much feedback, Pigments has everything moving and is borderline distracting.

I haven't found an interface I absolutely love yet; and I haven't found one that nails both the interface and sound. Dune 3 sounds great with an OK interface. Omnisphere sounds great with a terrible clunky interface that looks 20 years old. Hive also sounds great (similar to Dune) but the interface puts form over function.

I still like Zebra the best, it's not the prettiest (and dated) but it has a clear visual flow of the signal path. It's also the only plugin that I've completely read the manual and went through all the tutorial videos. So merely going through the learning curve helps!

[CausticPuppy]

(dupe)

[BONES]

I don't rate Hive's sound much, really. I'd put it in the same basket as Pigments.

I worry less about the interface itself than I do about workflow and for workflow, there are some excellent interfaces. Kilohearts do good workflow, both KHs One and Phase Plant are very easy to work with. I really like Audio Damage's UI's, too.

I think maybe once or twice, I've looked at a softsynth manual to work out very specific things, but that would be about the extent of it. If I need to RTFM, I'll find something else to use instead.

[kobal]

dune can really sound analog on some stuff and very sweet... just something is annoying is that it seems it s not possible to modulate the va osc freq at audiorate like fm, it either modulate via semi range steps, or the fine range it seems, or something i dont understand ,anyway it doesn sound like fm but like someting broken when i do

one feature that is great is the pink noise as modulation source, modulate everything very little with that and listen yours sound getting 3d , to simulate hardware circuits randomness (might take a lot more cpu ) but just filter reso envelops make already nice difference on some patch

it feel it lack a little something exciting to me sonically, pigment also .. but pigment strenght is the complexity it s capable, for complex sound the raw sound matter less ,it s the programing that does to some extent to me.

[CausticPuppy]

dune can really sound analog on some stuff and very sweet... just something is annoying is that it seems it s not possible to modulate the va osc freq at audiorate like fm, it either modulate via semi range steps, or the fine range it seems, or something i dont understand ,anyway it doesn sound like fm but like someting broken when i do

one feature that is great is the pink noise as modulation source, modulate everything very little with that and listen yours sound getting 3d , to simulate hardware circuits randomness (might take a lot more cpu ) but just filter reso envelops make already nice difference on some patch

it feel it lack a little something exciting to me sonically, pigment also .. but pigment strenght is the complexity it s capable, for complex sound the raw sound matter less ,it s the programing that does to some extent to me.

Did you check the modulation/cpu setting? By default it’s lowest, but you can set it to “audio rate” with max cpu usage. I forget the exact name of the setting but it’s on the main settings page.

[kobal]

dune can really sound analog on some stuff and very sweet... just something is annoying is that it seems it s not possible to modulate the va osc freq at audiorate like fm, it either modulate via semi range steps, or the fine range it seems, or something i dont understand ,anyway it doesn sound like fm but like someting broken when i do

one feature that is great is the pink noise as modulation source, modulate everything very little with that and listen yours sound getting 3d , to simulate hardware circuits randomness (might take a lot more cpu ) but just filter reso envelops make already nice difference on some patch

it feel it lack a little something exciting to me sonically, pigment also .. but pigment strenght is the complexity it s capable, for complex sound the raw sound matter less ,it s the programing that does to some extent to me.

Did you check the modulation/cpu setting? By default it’s lowest, but you can set it to “audio rate” with max cpu usage. I forget the exact name of the setting but it’s on the main settings page.

yes thanks you it was at audiorate but maybe i should try to modulate the phase if it s possible and need more time with it, could be user error.

edit: yes i tested again and got nice result even if it dosen t behave like what i m used, it bring something different so it s nice , it was definelty user error / not spent enought time with it to properly use the synth

[a9k1tp]

Both can create wide range of sounds. Some differences:

- CPU efficiency of Dune is one of the best but Pigments is one of the worst.
- Pigments is easier and faster to program because of it's responsive user interface. Dune 3 has dumb UI like hardware synths.

I love the interface of Pigments but it's huge cpu usage made me stop using it anymore. I do not like creating patches in Dune but the cpu efficiency made it my go to synth.

[pdxindy]

Both can create wide range of sounds. Some differences:

- CPU efficiency of Dune is one of the best but Pigments is one of the worst.
- Pigments is easier and faster to program because of it's responsive user interface. Dune 3 has dumb UI like hardware synths.

I love the interface of Pigments but it's huge cpu usage made me stop using it anymore. I do not like creating patches in Dune but the cpu efficiency made it my go to synth.

I own both... those reasons are why I hardly use either.

Pigments sucks up CPU like a vacuum!
I find the Dune GUI too tedious to bother with.

Hive, Vital and Icarus all sound good, are easy to use and don't gobble CPU.

Dune's mod matrix is so rudimentary compared to Vital.

[Tobi MM]

Dune's standard GUI is awful indeed. But; there's this skin from Killihu, called Duneton, and since that, it looks like a stock-plugin from ableton and because of it's clever redesign, it's now my favorite synth plugin.


Pigments was too much for me - couldn't work with that GUI. Sounds actually were cool, but a bit too mellow compared of Dune's pure Power, and for mellow stuff i already got hive2, which doesn't give me headaches.

[Dencheg]

Dune's GUI is perfectly fine. The matrix is perfect, the drag-n-drop is in place, no stuff is jumping around (cause it's an audio-instrument, not a beat visualizer)

Vital is not quite there yet, to put it mildly

[chk071]

Pigment's GUI is super easy for the kind of complexity offered. Don't quite understand the criticism. One of the best GUI's I've ever seen on such a complex synth.

[rezoneight]

You don't get the criticism because everyone has their own idea of what a good UI is and you happen to think Pigments has a good one. Good and bad in everything but people love to argue so here we are.

[cytospur]

Dune's GUI is perfectly fine. The matrix is perfect, the drag-n-drop is in place, no stuff is jumping around (cause it's an audio-instrument, not a beat visualizer)

Vital is not quite there yet, to put it mildly

I agree. Dune's GUI is very logical.

[chk071]

You don't get the criticism because everyone has their own idea of what a good UI is and you happen to think Pigments has a good one. Good and bad in everything but people love to argue so here we are.

In terms of GUI and operation, there's a lot of objectivity and common sense though. At least I thought so. Puzzling.