MuTools

humanboeing · Post by **humanboeing** » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:28 am

I found a nasty routing bug which freezes the entire app.
To simplify, lets say we have a kick rack and a bass rack, and we want to sidechain the bass to the kick.
Insert level compressor inside the bass rack and create an aux input pin for it. Then send the audio from kick to the bass (either through modular area or by using rack sends, works both ways). Now hold control and drag the compressor from bass rack to the kick rack. Here the freeze occurs. It also happens for plugins which have the option to create an auxiliary input pin.

To clarify: I dragged the compressor because I wanted to compress the kick, and I find it way faster and more intuitive to drag it for copy&paste into another rack instead of searching for it through the browser. I assume the app is confused because it tries to make an aux input pin on the kick rack and mirror the routing situation which would result in a feedback loop.

pljones · Post by **pljones** » Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:47 am

I'd be interested to know what happens for that in 8.8.6...

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:47 pm

That indeed creates an invalid routing loop. Will be fixed in the next update. Thx for spotting this.

NB: I'm quite sure, even without trying, the same would occur in M8.

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:59 am

Hi, MuLab Plugin doesn't follow host app. playhead position when the transport is in Stop mode. I have had negative results with the following applications:

Bitwig Studio

Akai MPC

Cantabile Lite

Unify

Also, MuLab's composer playhead returns to start position every time I press Stop/Pause (host transport) and it resumes playback from the 1st bar when I press play again.

It, however, works well for me with:

Studio One

Maschine2

MuLab Plugin 9.0.42 64 Bit, Windows OS.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:42 am

Did you right-click the Host Sync button (= one of the buttons at the right of the tempo) for all options?

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:16 am

mutools wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:42 am Did you right-click the Host Sync button (= one of the buttons at the right of the tempo) for all options?

No, I forgot about this option. I tried again with "sync to host position" - the playhead returns to last host position (Bitwig) now, but still doesn't update when the transport is in "Stop" mode - and doesn't update when I press play again (they run out of sync - Bitwig is at Bar 3 and MuLab is between Bar 5 and 6). I'll check other hosts again to see if it makes any difference.

Host Sync.jpg

Edit: Cantabile and Unify - MuLab sync the stop position now, but still doesn't update playhead in "Stop" mode and runs out of sync when I change host's playhead position and press "Play" again. Akai MPC - the playhead still returns to start position and runs out of sync when the position is changed in "Stop" mode.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:48 am

IIRC there is a kind of bug in Bitwig: When stopped it doesn't properly report its position to plugins.
You can verify that by shift-right-clicking that Host Sync button, that will popup a monitor panel that shows which info the host reports to MuLab Plugin.

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:27 am

mutools wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:48 am IIRC there is a kind of bug in Bitwig: When stopped it doesn't properly report its position to plugins.

No worries, I can live with it as my main DAW is Studio One (and I have no issues with MuLab within that app). The problem with Unify plugin (which I use for layering multiple VST instruments) is that it doesn't update the song position itself in stop mode (it's transport, however, sync instantly when host's transport starts, and for some reason MuLab doesn't follow). My plan was to use MuLab's composer on Unify's MIDI layer and route it to several instruments layers to have best of both worlds: Advanced MIDI features (MuLab) and excellent multi-threading (Unify).

P.S. Thanks for the "shift-right-click" tip, this will help me with my further investigation.

skarabee · Post by **skarabee** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:34 pm

I can confirm about Bitwig. This, among a lot of other quirks and bad surprises, made me left this unfinished piece of promising software (talking of Bitwig, not Mulab, of course). But you all know what, about promises

That's why I prefer the way Jo polishes his soft: taking care of wishes, but questionning about functionality and usability before making annoucements.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:39 pm

robert_p wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:27 am P.S. Thanks for the "shift-right-click" tip, this will help me with my further investigation.

Maybe this is a bit too hidden?
Would it be better if a right-click on the Host Sync button would pop up a menu with "Options" and "Monitor"?

bbreakz · Post by **bbreakz** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 3:48 pm

as someone whose owned both bitwig and mulab for a few years, I enjoy using mulab more.. bitwig has a lot to offer, but for whatever reason I seem to get on better with mulab. things I would love more of in mulab is more control over audio... such as warping/pitch-bending audio on the file itself (or could be inside the audiosequence window). i know its possible to stretch audio inside the audiosequence window, but I would love to be able to pitchbend audio that way as well (even at the bottom section)

would also love to have the same type of automation options that's used for automation tracks inside reg midi clips

the fact that bitwig doesnt have cloned copies seems ridiculous to me... the fact that mulab has it plus clip launching is a huge selling point imo

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:01 pm

mutools wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:39 pm
robert_p wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:27 am P.S. Thanks for the "shift-right-click" tip, this will help me with my further investigation.
Maybe this is a bit too hidden?
Would it be better if a right-click on the Host Sync button would pop up a menu with "Options" and "Monitor"?

I think this is a good idea

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:05 am

I used MuLab's "Host Sync" monitor to investigate the sync issues with my Unify plugin - the "Music Position" in MuLab's info window corresponds accurately to the transport position of both hosts, Studio One and Unify, however, MuLab's playhead is not where it supposed to be (see the attached screenshot).

I stopped the playback between bar 1 and 2, then I moved the playhead to bar 17 and pressed playback again (Unify doesn't update it's transport position in stop mode, but it never was an issue as it sync instantly with the host when the playback starts) When I replace MuLab with other plugins (BlueArp, Phrasebox) they work fine.

MuTools · Post by **MuTools** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:42 am

Please include a screenshot of your Host Sync setup for this case.

Also note that syncing is only done upon starting/stopping/repositioning-while-stopped the host DAW, depending on the sync options you've set. Once playing MuLab follows its own clock time.
Cfr https://www.mutools.com/info/M9/docs/mu ... -host.html

robert_p · Post by **robert_p** » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:25 am

Thanks for the link to the "Host Sync" docs. page, my setup for this case is: "Sync Time on Stop = Sync to Host Position". I'll try to reach out Unify developers - maybe they will be able to help me with this problem. I believe that adding "Sync Time on Stop" to Unify itself would be a good solution. I know they are quite busy tweaking the software for the Mac M1 right now but I'll try anyways. Would it be possible for them to reproduce this case with demo version of MuLab plugin? Or maybe you'll be able to provide them with the full version of your software for compatibility testing purpose?

MuTools

KVR Audio

MuLab 9.0.59 App + Plugin