[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[don_looney]

That's what they've put out in the past 12 months. It's quite a lot.

You can see for yourself here at any time:
https://www.bitwig.com/previous_releases/

blah blah ; make it not better
its over for them , siiting this out is not a solution

there are so many daws, im done with bitwig
good luck ihr zahlschweine

We will welcome you back when you realize that Bitwig is unique in almost everything.

[Alma Mare]

I think (and I've seen the same feeling throughout this thread) that there is a fundamental breach of trust that just happened. People were viewing the upgrade renewal fee as a vote of confidence. Yeah, €170 is expensive, but they've always come up with cool devices and improvements, so I believe that on the next 12 months they'll make it worth this much money, even if not at a machine gun pace.

My issue with add-ons is that they set a precedent where I'm not guaranteed a new device of feature if they deem it too good to 'give away' to the basic subscription. And I don't like being nickel'n'dimed or having shiny objects dangled in front of me.

Personally, I've always renewed my upgrade plan because they always managed to give some value in return and I could trust them to do so. No more blank checks. Unless a KILLER feature shows up on the basic plan or compatibility with Windows 13 forces me to do so, no more free rides.

[_leras]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I think he means this is just a small company and has real people working for it.

Is it that hard to complain about how something has been done, but also be supportive of the people creating these amazing tools?

The way some people are talking, they won't be happy unless Bitwig lose money and close down.

[_leras]

I think (and I've seen the same feeling throughout this thread) that there is a fundamental breach of trust that just happened. People were viewing the upgrade renewal fee as a vote of confidence. Yeah, €170 is expensive, but they've always come up with cool devices and improvements, so I believe that on the next 12 months they'll make it worth this much money, even if not at a machine gun pace.

My issue with add-ons is that they set a precedent where I'm not guaranteed a new device of feature if they deem it too good to 'give away' to the basic subscription. And I don't like being nickel'n'dimed or having shiny objects dangled in front of me.

Personally, I've always renewed my upgrade plan because they always managed to give some value in return and I could trust them to do so. No more blank checks. Unless a KILLER feature shows up on the basic plan or compatibility with Windows 13 forces me to do so, no more free rides.

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Also,

• You pay the upgrade and get the version at that time. This is fairly standard.

• You also get 12M updates as they come out. Bonus.

• This also allows them to split releases into smaller part than competitors and release improvements more regularly. Also a bonus.

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

[Held]

Is it that hard to complain about how something has been done, but also be supportive of the people creating these amazing tools?

Is it that hard to keep your promises and be supportive of the people who pay for your work even in difficult times like these?

[kultschar]

I think (and I've seen the same feeling throughout this thread) that there is a fundamental breach of trust that just happened. People were viewing the upgrade renewal fee as a vote of confidence. Yeah, €170 is expensive, but they've always come up with cool devices and improvements, so I believe that on the next 12 months they'll make it worth this much money, even if not at a machine gun pace.

My issue with add-ons is that they set a precedent where I'm not guaranteed a new device of feature if they deem it too good to 'give away' to the basic subscription. And I don't like being nickel'n'dimed or having shiny objects dangled in front of me.

Personally, I've always renewed my upgrade plan because they always managed to give some value in return and I could trust them to do so. No more blank checks. Unless a KILLER feature shows up on the basic plan or compatibility with Windows 13 forces me to do so, no more free rides.

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Also,

• You pay the upgrade and get the version at that time. This is fairly standard.

• You also get 12M updates as they come out. Bonus.

• This also allows them to split releases into smaller part than competitors and release improvements more regularly. Also a bonus.

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

They have failed to deliver. I have paid for “all software updates”. Its been sneakily changed. Dont need to be Sherlock Holmes to see what they have done.

As someone above says. The trust has gone. The next great update to The Grid for example could be a seperate add-on for all we know. The Grid Ultra edition

[sbmongoose]

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Also,

• You pay the upgrade and get the version at that time. This is fairly standard.

• You also get 12M updates as they come out. Bonus.

• This also allows them to split releases into smaller part than competitors and release improvements more regularly. Also a bonus.

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

But by now charging seperately for this, people are not getting this new update without paying extra for it. That is exactly what *has* changed. The fact that they have also changed the wording on their website of what the Upgrade Plan includes so that this could be released seperately means they knew that this was going against what they have previously sold the Upgrade Plan as.

[chrisstiles]

That's what they've put out in the past 12 months. It's quite a lot.

You can see for yourself here at any time:
https://www.bitwig.com/previous_releases/

Yes, and over the past 12 months most users have been relatively content. Materially, people who have a current update plan are concerned about what they'll get over the next 12 months, and the past few days have shown that the past may be no clear guide to the future.

[PieBerger]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I think he means this is just a small company and has real people working for it.

Is it that hard to complain about how something has been done, but also be supportive of the people creating these amazing tools?

The way some people are talking, they won't be happy unless Bitwig lose money and close down.

I'll be happy when I get the updates I paid for, as per the agreement I entered into. I like the software and I want to use it and keep using it. I don't want any money back or for anyone to get fired or paraded naked down the street or whatever, I just want the software updates that were promised to me and some kind of assurance that this thing will not happen again in the future. As a bonus, maybe a community manager could be hired to liaise with customers, conduct more user surveys, give feedback at Bitwish etc., given that their track record for connecting with customers is/has been on the poor side, I think it would foster better relations between company and customer moving forward.

Bitwig Studio is amazing, Bitwig GmbH less so.

[steff3]

Honestly, I'm more on the "not so impressive" side. 75 % of 30 people would be roughly 22 (rounded down), that's 3 agile teams. Three agile teams can pump out an insane amount of software if they are talented and well managed. Even two teams should have a significantly higher output than what's currently happening.

Well, an agile team of 7 - what we have - an PO? a shared Scrum Master for all teams? What about RE? What about QA? What about design? Designer inside the team or shared design team for all agile teams?

Compared to the others (Steinberg, Ableton, Logic team) I think, they are releasing lots of updates with quite a few new features every time.


From the development perspective, I think they are doing quite a good job.

[Phil B]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

No, come on, KVR moderators should delete any posts that are not 100% positive reviews or software quick tips. But even those should be deleted if they exude snarkiness, frustration or a sense of betrayal. Developers must be forced to wait to see how negative reactions to their products impact actual sales through time … no opportunity should be given to them to get an early read of what their customers might do with their money in the future because that could make companies self-conscious about their mistakes or even encourage them to adjust their approach before feeling the economic pain they so truly deserve. Could be a Black Mirror episode!

[Nemirov]

• You also get 12M updates as they come out. Bonus.

No, this is not a bonus, this is part of sold goods. The sold item was not Bitwig Studio itself (it is another item to sell), it was Upgrade plan with 12 months of upgrades and not an just Upgrade as you say. And this plan is not upgrading it in full amount as it was stated when buy.

[perpetual3]

I absolutely think that Bitwig mishandled the policy change and that this change de facto breached an implicit contract based on the marketing copy, but not on the terms of the EULA. I think their failure to announce and provide a grace period for those who literally bought the upgrade plan two weeks ago is particularly egregious.

Nevertheless, I went ahead and bought the upgrade and suite add-on. Bitwigs actions are out of my control, I am passionate about making music, and Bitwig is my DAW of choice. I’ve got a Live 11 90 day demo to explore, will be exploring FL Studio, Logic, Reaper, and Studio One as well, with the aim of not being tied down to any one particular DAW. When I worked at a film studio I HAD to be reasonably fluent in all the composers DAWS, and I will be moving back to that workflow over the coming months. It’s expensive, but I only have one life to live.

[jclosed]

That's what they've put out in the past 12 months. It's quite a lot.

You can see for yourself here at any time:
https://www.bitwig.com/previous_releases/

Yeh, but that was in the past. I am not going to argue about it. However - The situation has changed now. It remains to be seen how much of that we really get for our money upcoming times, and how much of that disappears behind a paywall. Events out of the past are no guarantee for the future you know? Especially if the terms and conditions are completely changed. So it remains to be seen if we will get as much as we have gotten in the past, and what we have to pay on top of our €170 in the future. One thing is for sure - We going to get less, unless we pay up for the extras.

As such I will re-evaluate everything again a year after my Renewal has expired in May next year. I am no longer willing to pay upfront like I always did, so if we don't get enough I by that time (and too much stuff is thrown behind the paywall) I will not renew and wait until next year. But, as I said before, I am sure the Bitwig team can survive without my money the coming year and maybe even more years...

[chrisstiles]

I think he means this is just a small company and has real people working for it.

Is it that hard to complain about how something has been done, but also be supportive of the people creating these amazing tools?

As was said earlier:

"I think people who used to think of the annual plan as a 1yr good faith investment in the company in exchange for its “surprise me!” work product will now think of it as 1 day plan to add the features added since the last time they paid the 1 day plan fee."

That was goodwill and people being supportive of those who created the tools - going forward people will be less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and will be more inclined to view it as a pure commercial transaction.