[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[krazzmann]

I just wrote an email to an editor of the audio department of the grand old german computer magazine c't. The shitstorm alone is a good reason to cover that in their news section. Moreover when c't made requests for comment to software companies it usually loosened their tongues and suddenly they responded with customer friendly announcement to avoid bad press. There is an infamous column called "Vorsicht Kunde" (beware of the customer) that regularly helped customers to get a response at all and suddenly even big names like HP or Deutsche Telekom changed their customer unfriendly behaviour.

[dreamstate42]

Well, an agile team of 7 - what we have - an PO? a shared Scrum Master for all teams? What about RE? What about QA? What about design? Designer inside the team or shared design team for all agile teams?

Compared to the others (Steinberg, Ableton, Logic team) I think, they are releasing lots of updates with quite a few new features every time.


From the development perspective, I think they are doing quite a good job.

If their setup is optimal, yes, single PO per team, Lead PO overall, shared Scrum Master. Again, if optimal, no dedicated QA, rather test-driven design or extreme / pair programming. Design team... sorry to be super picky, but looking at the idiosyncrasies... there probably is no design team. Certainly no UX team, maybe they have one or two shared designers.

I'm not disputing that they're not doing a good job, but it's not as impressive as some make it out to be. It's exactly what I would expect considering the size (and not really knowing their actual internal setup and organisation).

The comparison to others is moot in my opinion, as Steinberg, Ableton and Logic all have significantly more complex environments to handle and take care of (broader product range, hardware development / integration, technical debt and legacy-software maintenance etc.)

[SLiC]

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

So true, but I did have an active plan and I was 'promised' (in writing) that all of the updates were included (as they always have been). It turns out they lied and then tried to cover up the lie by changing the website which is even worse. This is simply undefendable.

To add insult to injury, because I have an active plan I have to pay over twice as much as someone who didn't have an active plan and buys one now. Surely the cost should have been the same to anyone with an active plan. It is a cynical, calculated cash grab designed specifically to exploit existing customers in my opinion.

Trying to defend any of this puts you are in a very small minority; the vast majority people really do care (this is self-evident) and Bitwig need to do something for their own good and self-preservation.

[Alma Mare]

I think (and I've seen the same feeling throughout this thread) that there is a fundamental breach of trust that just happened. People were viewing the upgrade renewal fee as a vote of confidence. Yeah, €170 is expensive, but they've always come up with cool devices and improvements, so I believe that on the next 12 months they'll make it worth this much money, even if not at a machine gun pace.

My issue with add-ons is that they set a precedent where I'm not guaranteed a new device of feature if they deem it too good to 'give away' to the basic subscription. And I don't like being nickel'n'dimed or having shiny objects dangled in front of me.

Personally, I've always renewed my upgrade plan because they always managed to give some value in return and I could trust them to do so. No more blank checks. Unless a KILLER feature shows up on the basic plan or compatibility with Windows 13 forces me to do so, no more free rides.

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Also,

• You pay the upgrade and get the version at that time. This is fairly standard.

• You also get 12M updates as they come out. Bonus.

• This also allows them to split releases into smaller part than competitors and release improvements more regularly. Also a bonus.

No one forces anyone to update. If you're happy with the setup you don't need to update immediately. This hasn't changed.

If you are attempting to explain to me the commercial transaction that I've already been doing, at least do try to get it right. The 12-month updates are not a bonus. It's literally part of what I'm purchasing. I already have a base version which I paid for and several 12-month cycles paid since the original purchase. For me and every person renewing, most of the value will be in the 12 month future updates. And trust is a key factor in that value perception.

As for a reason to think they won't? For me, this wilingness to cherry pick what is and is not included in my plan is enough.

[Phil B]

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Yeah, same here … other than the FAQ on their website saying that they will not be delivering some to-be-determined portion of their future work to the people who paid them to receive all of their output for one year.

[kultschar]

I think they will have a change in cash flow after this stunt.

Instead of users renewing in good faith and trust it is now a case of them selling new features to us before people part with money.

[Buckster]

I've just had a thought was 4.3.9 with the new devices released as a non beta/pre-release ? Previously haven't new features been released as betas etc so does this mean even more testing etc has been performed than normal ? Will this be a new trend for 4.4 etc ?

[don_looney]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I said that the communication was far from ideal. I said it from the beginning, but okay.
There is no cheap trick, just read those 50 pages of people arguing about free speech, comparison with Putin and Bitwig (this is actually funny), people payed the devs, not fulfilled promises, the list goes on.

[SLiC]

I've just had a thought was 4.3.9 with the new devices released as a non beta/pre-release ? Previously haven't new features been released as betas etc so does this mean even more testing etc has been performed than normal ? Will this be a new trend for 4.4 etc ?

No - it was buggy and caused crashes - they just released 4.3.10 today.

[_leras]

Is it that hard to complain about how something has been done, but also be supportive of the people creating these amazing tools?

Is it that hard to keep your promises and be supportive of the people who pay for your work even in difficult times like these?

You're implying some kind of bad faith.

I'm assuming the best of them, and just that they misjudged and miscommunicated.

[PieBerger]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I said that the communication was far from ideal. I said it from the beginning, but okay.
There is no cheap trick, just read those 50 pages of people arguing about free speech, comparison with Putin and Bitwig (this is actually funny), people payed the devs, not fulfilled promises, the list goes on.

You are deliberately ignoring the overwhelming percentage of people expressing legitimate concerns about this move in these 50 pages.

[_leras]

In my mind they have always delivered. No reason to think they won't.

Yeah, same here … other than the FAQ on their website saying that they will not be delivering some to-be-determined portion of their future work to the people who paid them to receive all of their output for one year.

If they want to do plug ins on the side - thats ok - maybe they are working with a 3rd party. I would think they should make the VSTs though.

I think they misjudged, and hugely miscommunicated, so it seems to me that they should indeed roll this back and at least include for existing upgrade plan holders.

I'm sure their DAW roadmap will be unaffected. I trust them to do their best.

[kultschar]

I've just had a thought was 4.3.9 with the new devices released as a non beta/pre-release ? Previously haven't new features been released as betas etc so does this mean even more testing etc has been performed than normal ? Will this be a new trend for 4.4 etc ?

No - it was buggy and caused crashes - they just released 4.3.10 today.

Maybe now 4.3.10 is out they have time to reply to the many disgruntled people who help pay their bills. Wishful thinking maybe

[UncleAge]

...The 12-month updates are not a bonus. It's literally part of what I'm purchasing...

For me its simply this.

[_leras]

And please stop this hate culture, it is not healthy at all and will change nothing into something better.

If by "hate culture" you mean adressing serious concerns about a lack of communication and understanding community ... no, I won't. Would you stop putting negative labels on peoples concerns? I really hate cheap tricks like that, you communist leftist snowflakes (hope you get the irony/sarcasm).

I said that the communication was far from ideal. I said it from the beginning, but okay.
There is no cheap trick, just read those 50 pages of people arguing about free speech, comparison with Putin and Bitwig (this is actually funny), people payed the devs, not fulfilled promises, the list goes on.

You are deliberately ignoring the overwhelming percentage of people expressing legitimate concerns about this move in these 50 pages.

I see it that he says the reaction has gone OTT.

People have got their pitchforks out wanting Bitwig to suffer and burn down.

That would just leave us with no Bitwig. It would be a terrible outcome.