[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[Greenplums]

Benn Jordan and Venus Theory chatting about it now

I would describe that video chat in one word "Condescending".

[PereAmengual]

They literally just sat there and openly admitted that they get all this stuff for free and don’t care about how this impacts the paying customer and laughed at their audience like we don’t matter and our grievance isn’t even real. I just lost a LOT of respect for Venus Theory and, quite frankly, the vast majority of YouTube influencers who are painfully out of touch with the paying consumer. So far, Dash Glitch is the only one of them who’s had the guts to have an actual opinion about this. Meanwhile, Venus Theory looks like he’s in a hostage video. Just blink if you need help, Cameron.

I was expecting some serious talk that might give some light on the subject but in the very first minutes I found dismissive laughs accompanying the "go make some music" motto. Even the childish argument that with the ongoing war there are much important issues to discuss about.

How disappointing!

We are quite able to do some music and also other stuff a while later, thanks. The use of such fallacy and the condescending tone in the first minutes was enough for me.

So thanks for the TLDR version. I was planning to spend the morning watching that video and now I will do something else. Like making music, for example.

[Kyloe]

They are a niche product within a niche.

THIS. I am SO tired of fanboys and influencers pushing the phrase "core DAW features", which is just a bull***t term for basic functionality. That was never a thing that drew people to Bitwig. I don't know anyone who bought Bitwig so they could use it for basic things you can do in literally any other DAW. The entire point of Bitwig is that it's a left-field sound design playground that allows you to create music in non-traditional ways.

I don't want boring Ableton-ish updates that only contain bugfixes and tedious improvements to things that practically no one has even noticed. Shifting the focus on "core features" means pushing out coma-inducing updates with underwhelming changelogs that bring next to nothing new to the table. I'm not paying $170 a year for that. The deal was to get access to POWERFUL new features and devices, not a few nip-tucks to the piano roll and a slightly improved arrangement view.

Bitwig is and always was a weird, experimental and yes NICHE programming environment for sound designers and generative musicians who were NEVER interested in things like "core features". Our heads were outside the box from the very outset. If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

Well, your text reads as if you are writing on behalf of all Bitwig users. But you don't.

I bought Bitwig - as the first DAW - because it offers very special features, because of the modernity (newer source code than e.g. Ableton Live), touchscreen, but also for the basic things. Before that I tested several other DAWs, Bitwig appealed to me the most and also advertised to be / become a full-featured DAW.

Sentences like "Our heads were outside the box from the very outset." sound like arrogance pseudo elitism to me. I also don't see anything wrong with beginners and new customers buying Bitwig and just "draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view" for now. There is a steep learning curve and it can be even steeper if you can combine basic applications with powerful tools.

So why not offer full basic functionality AND powerful new features and devices at the same time? So that a few individuals can feel especially unique?

Full basic functionality AND powerful new features and devices at the same time? That sounds like a great idea! Kinda like the deal I had with Bitwig before they changed the TOS and locked those powerful new features and devices behind a paywall.

I am also against this additional paywall. But as you argue that for 169 €/$ you expect powerful new tools, so I expect for the money additionally functioning DAW basics.

[Held]

I was expecting some serious talk that might give some light on the subject but in the very first minutes I found dismissive laughs accompanying the "go make some music" motto. Even the childish argument that with the ongoing war there are much important issues to discuss about.

It's good to know they don't expect people to honor contracts. It's nice when people are honest about being unreliable.

[_leras]

Out of the box just on content alone Bitwig just can't compare to the likes of Ableton, Cubase, or Logic.

Like I said the easiest way to make revenue without affecting the core application is selling presets and sound packs which imo is pretty acceptable as most companies do it and they make pretty good revenue doing that. Bitwig's current included content is not great and there should be a lot more Grid presets that show how cool it is for those who are not really into synth design but would still like to mess around with it. They should have more presets for their other instruments, and more acoustic drums a hyper sampled Grand Piano. These are easy pickings imo when it comes to making revenue outside of the core DAW and they don't have to break EULA or customer faith to do it.

Does it need to compete on content? Everyone has samples coming out of the wazoo. So many free samples available.

It's is ahead in other areas.

I definitely agree with the better presets/sound packs though. Even with the current content there's scope for 'starter kit' presets that could really show off what it already there.

[tempsperdu]

What half intrigued me about the VT chat is that whilst they said what was important is what Bitwig do next, they didn't seem to factor in the possible financial repercussions Bitwig are liable to have to ride. I suppose it mostly depends on who will now still buy the upgrade plan and when.

[PatrickW]

This is crazy. I am literally looking at my choices for a new daw right now. Ugh.

I was sure to never ever change to another DAW again.
And then this happened.
In one go, I lost all trust in the future of Bitwig.
So a few days ago, I switched to FL Studio again.
One of the reasons I had to switch from FL Studio to Bitwig was because of migrating from Windows to Mac and at that time, FL Studio was only running on Windows.
And I really liked the philosophy behind Bitwig.

I bought FL Studio in 2009.
I never paid them anything since them.
I installed FL Studio now and discovered that this product has been incredibly evolved since that time.
And they honered their promise : you pay only once for the DAW.

I supported Bitwig by buying 4 yearly update plans after my initial buy of the DAW, because I really liked the creativity they were putting into the DAW and I wanted to support them.
I'm not mad at the Bitwig team, I'm for the most part sad, since I don't see a long term future anymore for Bitwig, at least not a future for me using the product, except for finishing the runnning projects I still have in Bitwig.

[_leras]

THIS. I am SO tired of fanboys and influencers pushing the phrase "core DAW features", which is just a bull***t term for basic functionality. That was never a thing that drew people to Bitwig. I don't know anyone who bought Bitwig so they could use it for basic things you can do in literally any other DAW. The entire point of Bitwig is that it's a left-field sound design playground that allows you to create music in non-traditional ways.

Bitwig is and always was a weird, experimental and yes NICHE programming environment for sound designers and generative musicians who were NEVER interested in things like "core features". Our heads were outside the box from the very outset. If you bought Bitwig just to draw some notes in the piano roll and plop audio clips into the arrangement view, I'm sorry that you wasted your money because you could've just paid $60 for Reaper.

Hey, fine if that is what it is for you.

For me it's just a very easy to use, and pretty frictionless environment for making music.

The routing, the grouping, the browser, the tools, the scenes, the modulation all help make a wonderful workflow for how I like to make music.

The way it manages windows on my dual screen setup is incredible.

I use mostly third party plug ins and it works very well with all of them.

In particular the routing, grouping and containers makes mixing very nice. Want a mix knob for a plug in, simply alt+g and group it. Tada. Want a send reverb for on channel only, group the channel and add the verb.

Now don't get me wrong I also really like it for making sounds too, combining sound sources and fx chains work amazingly well.

But. Overall. It's the slick seamless workflow by a mile that I appreciate most. Attention to detail in many places.

It's only going to get better as well.

[musikarldererste]

This is crazy. I am literally looking at my choices for a new daw right now. Ugh.

I was sure to never ever change to another DAW again.
And then this happened.
In one go, I lost all trust in the future of Bitwig.
So a few days ago, I switched to FL Studio again.
One of the reasons I had to switch from FL Studio to Bitwig was because of migrating from Windows to Mac and at that time, FL Studio was only running on Windows.
And I really liked the philosophy behind Bitwig.

I bought FL Studio in 2009.
I never paid them anything since them.
I installed FL Studio now and discovered that this product has been incredibly evolved since that time.
And they honered their promise : you pay only once for the DAW.

I supported Bitwig by buying 4 yearly update plans after my initial buy of the DAW, because I really liked the creativity they were putting into the DAW and I wanted to support them.
I'm not mad at the Bitwig team, I'm for the most part sad, since I don't see a long term future anymore for Bitwig, at least not a future for me using the product, except for finishing the runnning projects I still have in Bitwig.

yeah fl studio has so many features added to 20
and fl studio 21 is around the corner with more awesome features
and for free , sure they have addons , but core features are free

so i was unsure in the past if i will use bitwig
so this move from them makes my desicion a lot easier

so lets be honest guys =
its over here , the had their time but say nothing
on knobcloud you see many license for sale
i was a customers since versoin 1 , its was a really great time
but it was

i wish you all the best
make your desicion and dont wait for a respond that wil never come

[SLiC]

Out of the box just on content alone Bitwig just can't compare to the likes of Ableton, Cubase, or Logic.

Like I said the easiest way to make revenue without affecting the core application is selling presets and sound packs which imo is pretty acceptable as most companies do it and they make pretty good revenue doing that. Bitwig's current included content is not great and there should be a lot more Grid presets that show how cool it is for those who are not really into synth design but would still like to mess around with it. They should have more presets for their other instruments, and more acoustic drums a hyper sampled Grand Piano. These are easy pickings imo when it comes to making revenue outside of the core DAW and they don't have to break EULA or customer faith to do it.

Does it need to compete on content? Everyone has samples coming out of the wazoo. So many free samples available.

It's is ahead in other areas.

I definitely agree with the better presets/sound packs though. Even with the current content there's scope for 'starter kit' presets that could really show off what it already there.

The full version of Bigwig (with spectral) now costs GDP 399, Live ‘Suite’ is GBP 539, so Live Suite costs GDP 139 more

Bitwigs only has 7 instruments + edrums (3 instruments I would use) and 60 FX (generaly pretty good, especially the new + effects), the bundled' content is however quite weak, I did a new install recently and only downloaded the essentials stuff...

Live ‘Suite’ has significantly more content (50Gigs and 17 instruments, 60 FX including the AAS stuff, and FX like Glue compressor), the sample content is by companies like 'Spitfire Audio' and their 5000+ pre-sets and 100's of very high-quality max devices many of which rival the type of stuff Bitwig are now selling such as https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/inspired-nature/#? and https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/pitchloop89/#?

I think ‘Live Suite’ is better value and the content is a large part of what makes Live special (especially how it integrates with PUSH with no set up, seeing the Live instruments and FX on the PUSH display is quite special)

[_leras]

I'm not mad at the Bitwig team, I'm for the most part sad, since I don't see a long term future anymore for Bitwig, at least not a future for me using the product, except for finishing the runnning projects I still have in Bitwig.

Surely you either like working with Bitwig or you don't? If you like working with it but stop... Well only you miss out.

I'm not sure that other DAWs are particularly much better in cost for the DAW or updates.

[SLiC]

Ableton's Lives sales model is based on the Standard Model, the 'Suite' model and the 'shop' of add on packs. https://www.ableton.com/en/packs/

Live can do this as they don't have an 'upgrade plan' so you know exactly what you are getting when you buy live...if you want all the toys in the box, you buy Suite, but there are still other new things coming out from 3rd parties that you can buy. So simple and transparent!

If Bitwig want to copy Ableton (!) then I suggest they do this.

[jclosed]

Out of the box just on content alone Bitwig just can't compare to the likes of Ableton, Cubase, or Logic.

Like I said the easiest way to make revenue without affecting the core application is selling presets and sound packs which imo is pretty acceptable as most companies do it and they make pretty good revenue doing that. Bitwig's current included content is not great and there should be a lot more Grid presets that show how cool it is for those who are not really into synth design but would still like to mess around with it. They should have more presets for their other instruments, and more acoustic drums a hyper sampled Grand Piano. These are easy pickings imo when it comes to making revenue outside of the core DAW and they don't have to break EULA or customer faith to do it.

Does it need to compete on content? Everyone has samples coming out of the wazoo. So many free samples available.

It's is ahead in other areas.

I definitely agree with the better presets/sound packs though. Even with the current content there's scope for 'starter kit' presets that could really show off what it already there.

The full version of Bigwig (with spectral) now costs GDP 399, Live ‘Suite’ is GBP 539, so Live Suite costs GDP 139 more

Bitwigs only has 7 instruments + edrums (3 instruments I would use) and 60 FX (generaly pretty good, especially the new + effects), the bundled' content is however quite weak, I did a new install recently and only downloaded the essentials stuff...

Live ‘Suite’ has significantly more content (50Gigs and 17 instruments, 60 FX including the AAS stuff, and FX like Glue compressor), the sample content is by companies like 'Spitfire Audio' and their 5000+ pre-sets and 100's of very high-quality max devices many of which rival the type of stuff Bitwig are now selling.

I think ‘Live Suite’ is better value and the content is a large part of what makes Live special (especially how it integrates with PUSH with no set up, seeing the Live instruments and FX on the PUSH display is quite special)

While I see your point, Bitwig until now felt more upon my taste. I will admit buying Live Suite got more tempting now. That much I can agree with...

If I want to Renew my upgrade plan next year and I want the "full" version of Bitwig (aka Bitwig "Suite"), it will cost me €270. That's a very, very steep price. And that price even get worst if they add more and more add-ons. It will ultimately grow to a point that upgrading Bitwig will become more expensive than the initial purchase price, and maybe even more costly than simply buying a DAW like Ableton Suite. That's not a good development.

[musikarldererste]

Out of the box just on content alone Bitwig just can't compare to the likes of Ableton, Cubase, or Logic.

Like I said the easiest way to make revenue without affecting the core application is selling presets and sound packs which imo is pretty acceptable as most companies do it and they make pretty good revenue doing that. Bitwig's current included content is not great and there should be a lot more Grid presets that show how cool it is for those who are not really into synth design but would still like to mess around with it. They should have more presets for their other instruments, and more acoustic drums a hyper sampled Grand Piano. These are easy pickings imo when it comes to making revenue outside of the core DAW and they don't have to break EULA or customer faith to do it.

Does it need to compete on content? Everyone has samples coming out of the wazoo. So many free samples available.

It's is ahead in other areas.

I definitely agree with the better presets/sound packs though. Even with the current content there's scope for 'starter kit' presets that could really show off what it already there.

The full version of Bigwig (with spectral) now costs GDP 399, Live ‘Suite’ is GBP 539, so Live Suite costs GDP 139 more

Bitwigs only has 7 instruments + edrums (3 instruments I would use) and 60 FX (generaly pretty good, especially the new + effects), the bundled' content is however quite weak, I did a new install recently and only downloaded the essentials stuff...

Live ‘Suite’ has significantly more content (50Gigs and 17 instruments, 60 FX including the AAS stuff, and FX like Glue compressor), the sample content is by companies like 'Spitfire Audio' and their 5000+ pre-sets and 100's of very high-quality max devices many of which rival the type of stuff Bitwig are now selling.

I think ‘Live Suite’ is better value and the content is a large part of what makes Live special (especially how it integrates with PUSH with no set up, seeing the Live instruments and FX on the PUSH display is quite special)

While I see your point, Bitwig until now felt more upon my taste. I will admit buying Live Suite got more tempting now. That much I can agree with...

If I want to Renew my upgrade plan next year and I want the "full" version of Bitwig (aka Bitwig "Suite"), it will cost me €270. That's a very, very steep price. And that price even get worst if they add more and more add-ons. It will ultimately grow to a point that upgrading Bitwig will become more expensive than the initial purchase price, and maybe even more costly than simply buying a DAW like Ableton Suite. That's not a good development.

to be positve here
bitwig develop fast
3-4 updates in a year

ableton is slower is better for your wallet
but feature wise not that good

[_leras]

The full version of Bigwig (with spectral) now costs GDP 399, Live ‘Suite’ is GBP 539, so Live Suite costs GDP 139 more

Bitwigs only has 7 instruments + edrums (3 instruments I would use) and 60 FX (generaly pretty good, especially the new + effects), the bundled' content is however quite weak, I did a new install recently and only downloaded the essentials stuff...

Live ‘Suite’ has significantly more content (50Gigs and 17 instruments, 60 FX including the AAS stuff, and FX like Glue compressor),

I see how that reads, but if you look at Abletons 17 instruments most things are covered by Bitiwg.

Ableton include CV controllers x 3, which Bitiwg has but doesn't include as instruments.

Ableton also list sampler, simpler and impulse (drum sampler). These are all covered by the better Bitwig sampler imo.

Bitiwg misses only the two physical modelling instruments. Though you can add this type of thing to polymer quite easily with modulators.

So... It's not as clear cut as it look imo.

Definitely Bitiwg could do with some better clarity on how do goa about things or repack to include a 'physical modelling' device.

There are tons of max type devices that are possible and even exist as grid, or just presets. These could definitely be better communicated. They're not really pushed or advertised you just have to find them in presets.

More samples. Yes probably a bit would help, but also simpler starting block presets would go a long way.