[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[SLiC]

to be positve here
bitwig develop fast
3-4 updates in a year

ableton is slower is better for your wallet
but feature wise not that good

Live has had 2 (free) updates this year, same as Bitwig (and they are free to all, no 'plan' needed) ...11.5 will probably also be a (bigger) free update and will probably come out (in beta) this year. Ableton certainly have there their updates in beta for longer, but then they seem to suffer from fewer bugs/regressions as the beta is free to all, so they get more input...

Feature wise, Live has a lot of features that Bitwig doesn't have (and Visa versa obviously) so it's just a matter of personal choice...or if you can't choose have both

[PatrickW]

I'm not mad at the Bitwig team, I'm for the most part sad, since I don't see a long term future anymore for Bitwig, at least not a future for me using the product, except for finishing the runnning projects I still have in Bitwig.

Surely you either like working with Bitwig or you don't? If you like working with it but stop... Well only you miss out.

I'm not sure that other DAWs are particularly much better in cost for the DAW or updates.

I don't need "free".
It's not about the cost, it's about trust.
I cannot relate to companies that I don't trust.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think that Bitwig will survive this long term, so for me it is better to move on to something that I see a future for and putting my (mental) energy in that product.

When I started Bitwig in the past, I instantly started feeling creative.
When I start the program now, I feel cheated.
That's the difference between humans and robots : for robots, it's all about logic (pun intended), humans connect feelings to objects and services.
I'm not a robot ...

[musikarldererste]

The full version of Bigwig (with spectral) now costs GDP 399, Live ‘Suite’ is GBP 539, so Live Suite costs GDP 139 more

Bitwigs only has 7 instruments + edrums (3 instruments I would use) and 60 FX (generaly pretty good, especially the new + effects), the bundled' content is however quite weak, I did a new install recently and only downloaded the essentials stuff...

Live ‘Suite’ has significantly more content (50Gigs and 17 instruments, 60 FX including the AAS stuff, and FX like Glue compressor),

I see how that reads, but if you look at Abletons 17 instruments most things are covered by Bitiwg.

Ableton include CV controllers x 3, which Bitiwg has but doesn't include as instruments.

Ableton also list sampler, simpler and impulse (drum sampler). These are all covered by the better Bitwig sampler imo.

Bitiwg misses only the two physical modelling instruments. Though you can add this type of thing to polymer quite easily with modulators.

So... It's not as clear cut as it look imo.

Definitely Bitiwg could do with some better clarity on how do goa about things or repack to include a 'physical modelling' device.

There are tons of max type devices that are possible and even exist as grid, or just presets. These could definitely be better communicated. They're not really pushed or advertised you just have to find them in presets.

More samples. Yes probably a bit would help, but also simpler starting block presets would go a long way.

abletons sampler (simpler) is way better than bitwigs

[machinesworking]

Surely you either like working with Bitwig or you don't? If you like working with it but stop... Well only you miss out.

I'm not sure that other DAWs are particularly much better in cost for the DAW or updates.

They are, your point about feature sets is real, Bitwig has CLAP, extensive modulation capabilities and great plug ins, but other DAWs are much cheaper to keep up to date.

Even Live, at something like $700 for Suite, it's not cheap up front but upgrades are every three to four years on average. there's usually two updates in that period than add new features. Sometimes those have been substantial improvements and new plug ins. so three years if you absolutely have to have Bitwig up to date, is going to be roughly $480 more or less. to do the same thing in Live Suite is roughly $240. In one upgrade cycle for Live you cover the cost difference between Bitwig and it, and from then on Bitwig is far more expensive to keep up to date. Another independent not owned by a conglomerate or bigger player like Apple DAW is Digital Performer, it's the same, one big upgrade at first and a few updates that add significant features. In the last year or so after introducing Articulation maps, retrospective record, MPE, extended bounce options, multis channel MIDI tracks etc. they've introduced ARA support, audio to MIDI, Melodyne Essentials as free updates.

I think Bitwig are great, I've never been sold on their update plan, you can spend time to game it to make it work for you so you aren't spending a ton of money, but that means missing out on features, and even then it's more expensive than upgrades. But I don't think in the end it generates the kind of money that Bitwig needs to keep solvent, and that's why they made this blunder. IMO they should switch to upgrades, charge $200+ for it, and jump through upgrades when they come up with enough new features to justify it without worrying about the 2-4 year cycle most DAWs do. I would probably buy an upgrade without worrying about it if they added in retrospective record, MIDI comping etc. It's more about the features they offer than the time frame.

Of course value is where you need features, if Bitwig is what you want, then their more expensive model for keeping up to date isn't a concern really, but don't fool yourself, it's more expensive to keep Bitwig up to date than any DAW besides pro tools. Where I think they're failing is people are skipping years in the update plan, or at least months. if you work it right you hardly miss anything and come out around the same price or less than other DAWs.

[Cyoon]

Their numbers aren't actually too bad in 2021, maybe not extraordinary well, but they have quite a lot of free capital reserve, and also a reasonable net income (judging by their past).

Is this public information?

you can search for Bitwig here, enter captcha and look into the financial statements "Jahresabschluss". It's all in German accounting standard and language, so not IFRS.

https://www.bundesanzeiger.de/pub/de/start?0

Other source with less information here: https://www.northdata.de/BITWIG+GmbH,+B ... B+120069+B

You can see the spike in 2017 in total assets of >1 mio. €, that's when they got a capitalisation I think, which is hold as free capital reserve ytd.

Cannot look into the contracts, because the function is in maintenance, but they can be looked into here https://www.handelsregister.de/rp_web/welcome.xhtml

[machinesworking]

to be positve here
bitwig develop fast
3-4 updates in a year

ableton is slower is better for your wallet
but feature wise not that good

Honestly I would rather have retrospective record, and MIDI comping than a lot of the things that Bitwig added in the last year. I guess it depends on how much you rely on your own playing VS micro editing tracks with probability features, that I admit are really cool no doubt, super great on drums, but I miss retrospective record in Bitwig every time I play an MPE instrument without recording it, it's the only DAW I own that doesn't have that feature.

Another one, M4L allows for SysEx dumps of hardware synths into clips that you can fire at the beginning of a sequence to permanently load a patch into a song. I might be alone here, but Lives time stretching algorithms are just way more complete, and better. I'm just saying it really depends on what features you're talking about like it does with any DAW that's worth looking at.

[SLiC]

Lives time stretching algorithms are just way more complete, and better. I'm just saying it really depends on what features you're talking about like it does with any DAW that's worth looking at.

I would agree with that, and the live clip launching in general (it still feels like that was what Live was made for)

Bitwig was ahead for me until Live 11, that added audio and midi comping, linked track editing, MPE, macro variations with 16 macros, tempo follow, all the probability and chance stuff, Scene Follow Actions (I use this a lot) and some amazing content- hybrid convo reverb, Spectral Time, really amazing new packs and sample stuff...one of the best value updates I have had.

Live 11 was released last year, since then there have been a lot of small updates and 2-point updates, all free. https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-11/ so Live is developing fast enough for me whilst remaining very stable, the 11.1 update was dozens of small workflows and QOL fixes based on feedback- that my sort of update!

[machinesworking]

Lives time stretching algorithms are just way more complete, and better. I'm just saying it really depends on what features you're talking about like it does with any DAW that's worth looking at.

I would agree with that, and the live clip launching in general (it still feels like that was what Live was made for)

Bitwig was ahead for me until Live 11, that added audio and midi comping, linked track editing, MPE, macro variations with 16 macros, tempo follow, all the probability and chance stuff, Scene Follow Actions (I use this a lot) and some amazing content- hybrid convo reverb, Spectral Time, really amazing new packs and sample stuff...one of the best value updates I have had.

Live 11 was released last year, since then there have been a lot of small updates and 2-point updates, all free. https://www.ableton.com/en/release-notes/live-11/ so Live is developing fast enough for me whilst remaining very stable, the 11.1 update was dozens of small workflows and QOL fixes based on feedback- that my sort of update!

Yeah all this happened at a time when I've been torn between the two DAWs both have great features, but Live stepped up. Pxindy pointed out that Bitwig still has better MPE implementation and that's true, but I might be one of the few people that loved Bitwig for other reasons besides the Grid and all the built in modulation capabilities.

What would really cement it for me is if either DAW went head first into tempo mapping and allowed for a super intuitive smooth mapping of irregular tempos to the grid. I love that feature in DP11, but having it in a clips based sound design environment like Live or Bitwig would be amazing.

The tempo follow feature in Live during the beta anyway was terrible for me, maybe it's better now? or short 1/8th second bursts of white noise are not percussive enough or whatever for it?

[SLiC]

Tempo Follow works OK of you have it follow drums, not so much other less rhythmically defined stuff (I have had it work with some rhythm guitar stuff and when it did work it was like magic!). Studio One probably has the best tempo mapping/following I have seen.

It's interesting that almost all of the top 10 requests in Bitwish are currently available in Live!

[perpetual3]

Statements Baphometrix made in the Bitwig discord. You can join and read them for yourself.

Baphometrix is pissed because Bitwig did not offer an NFR license (like they did for polarity, taches, and dahs glitch). Just goes to show how important the DAW really is or isn’t.

Personally I've never seen an affiliate link, or a google ad, or Baph selling anything. It doesn't seem like Baph cares about that stuff but I honestly have no idea because I don't know Baph and I don't watch the channel like a hawk so I won't assume anything.

So I'm asking, what evidence do you have for this claim?

[enCiphered]

And for me the biggest thing with modulation is that in Bitwig it can be per voice and that is not possible in Live nor M4L. I basically never used modulation in Live and just used VST's.

Per-Voice modulation in Bitwig does only work for Bitwig instruments or am I missing something?

[Cyoon]

And for me the biggest thing with modulation is that in Bitwig it can be per voice and that is not possible in Live nor M4L. I basically never used modulation in Live and just used VST's.

Per-Voice modulation in Bitwig does only work for Bitwig instruments or am I missing something?

With CLAP devices also I think

[FakeNatty]

Per-Voice modulation in Bitwig does only work for Bitwig instruments or am I missing something?

For 3rd party, no per voice. For internal plugins, it depends.

[Buckster]

Per-Voice modulation in Bitwig does only work for Bitwig instruments or am I missing something?

For 3rd party, no per voice. For internal plugins, it depends.

I don't think that's true - per voice does work with CLAP - I've used it with DIVA

[billinder33]

Benn Jordan and Venus Theory chatting about it now

Just watched some of this...wow. So two guys who don't pay for Bitwig think paying users shouldn't be upset because:

- there's a war in Ukraine
- Other companies are screwing you too
- Someone went SO FAR as to ask a couple of lawyer friends about the EULA, lol
- And the best one.... You're posting on KVR and WATCHING THIS VIDEO instead of making music.

I've never heard of Benn Jordan before but I just lost a ton of respect for Venus.... At least he confirmed that I should spend whatever small amount of time I spend watching his videos making music instead.