[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[Hink]

and I have never read so much on bitwig, actually the only thread in a company forum I ever subscribed to.

You should have waited to page 100 to post as a guest appearance

I typically allow the companies mods to do their thing, the absolute zero presence of their company mods during the this entire thread should be at least noted.

Can't blame them. I'm starting to see why Gol was such an ass to people on the IL forums.

I can, I never had to pick up IL's slack and I hope they read this and step up.

[Phil B]

I still think that the decision makers at Bitwig never really thought this through. They never actually realized how much their undefined/ intertwined/ uncommunicated "add-ons are new products" concept undermines the value of their upgrade plan subscription.
Obviously that's just my opinion, I can be wrong on this one.

I think that's one of the fascinating little micro-dynamic guessing games here. Where was this on the spectrum from innocent tone-deafness to willful action? We'll never know for sure.

Some clues:

• Prior to announcing the concept of add-ons, they amended the EULA to expand Bitwig's own IT rights over them. Don't think this "proves" anything on its own. They may have thought "people are gonna love these add-ons!! We just need to clean up that darn EULA!")

• Also just prior to that announcement, they did a U-He giveaway (presumably with some form of compensation paid to U-He) to get people to accelerate the registration of annual plans (whether by buying them or registering what they were holding on to). Maybe it was a "pure coincidence" (no way), maybe it was "somewhat innocent" (e.g., wanting to get as many people as possible to download new versions and click Agree to the new EULA because someone advised them that they would lack IP rights in add-ons unless they did it) or maybe it was "defensive/sneaky" (e.g., they had a feeling what the reaction would be and wanted to lock up as many people as possible for 1 year before the announcement in the hopes that time would heal all wounds)

• Since they were amending the EULA anyway, they easily could have amended Section 2.5 to say, instead of active plans receive free "Upgrades" (which was now defined to include add-ons), that active plans receive only free "updates to the Final Version". By not amending it, this whole debacle was converted into a literal breach of contract for them!! Maybe that was incompetence? Maybe that was an intentional risk-based decision (e.g., "We need the incremental IT protections for our add-ons, nobody is going to sue us over the EULA, and if we amend 2.5 that could be interpreted as an admission that we owe the add-ons to anyone that hasn't yet agreed to the new EULA"). Or maybe it was pure sneaky (e.g.,"we think someone suing us on the EULA will fail because [fill in the blank - you're guess is as good as mine] so let's just take what we need and move on")

My guess? In the middle, but more towards sneaky than innocent. I think the U-He promotion showed they were pretty well aware of the risk of customer backlash. But I'm guessing the Section 2.5 / contractual breach debacle was pure screw-up by whoever drafted the EULA. If they wanted to limit the EULA amendment to just expanded scope of protections and not free upgrades, they could have easily just had purchasers of add-ons click Agree to a EULA Amendment at that time. They did it in advance, so I smell sneak!

EDIT: In case not 100% obvious, when I said "they did a U-He giveaway (presumably with some form of compensation paid to U-He)" I did not mean to imply I think U-He has anything to do with all this. I truly hope he received a big pile of cash for letting bitwig give away licenses to their customers. I just meant that Bitwig wanted to do this so badly that they were willing to pay to do it (e.g., cash payment to U-He, or in exchange for services, or equity in Bitwig, or Bitwig's agreement to support CLAP ... I have no idea, but I'm sure they gave up something!)

[Hans Vos]

Why would they want to placate a bunch a crybabies? It's not an american company. Man, you can call yourself whatever you want. But calling me a crybabie because I'm pissed that my contract is broken? I hope in your future someone will do this to some of your conracts that really matter to you and that it'll cost you money you can't afford. Than being ignored and called a crybaby when you complain.

[SLiC]

Here is my idea- give everyone with a plan a $79 money off 'voucher' - people who have bought it can use it on the next one (or an update), no refunds needed. People who haven't can get this free or if they don't want it... the next one etc...job done

[giacometti777]

Are you just totally ignorant to world leading analogous projects like Blender? It’s crazy how people allow themselves to be so confident on partial understandings of the world.

You may want to have a look at the industry backing Blender enjoys before calling it an even remotely analogous project.

Talking about partial understandings of the world and then comparing vastly different markets, industries, tools, and budgets.

Of course I am aware of that? This project would also need major backing and would be able to gain it for the same reasons.

[SephReed]

I remember when people had the licensing issues with Vengeance Avenger (the switch to codemeter). Indirectly Manuel said something along the lines of "kvr, gs or reddit account for not even 1% of the customer base and me being here giving explanations is rather a privilege than an obligation". At this point is pretty clear that the vast Bitwig user base has no issues with the move. They know it by their numbers and will just move on. As anyone here should

New era, my peep. Social media latches onto controversy like crazy, and the world is experienced largely through that lens. Anyone who's shown any interest in the past towards Bitwig or DAWs and is on YouTube, TikTok, or whatever else... the algorithms will probably throw this their way sooner or later. And I suspect it'll have a chilling effect on the money they spend.

[Dionysos]

Of course I am aware of that? This project would also need major backing and would be able to gain it for the same reasons.

Ok, good to know.

[Lazarus451]

I remember when people had the licensing issues with Vengeance Avenger (the switch to codemeter). Indirectly Manuel said something along the lines of "kvr, gs or reddit account for not even 1% of the customer base and me being here giving explanations is rather a privilege than an obligation". At this point is pretty clear that the vast Bitwig user base has no issues with the move. They know it by their numbers and will just move on. As anyone here should

Bitwig users might not even have internet connections or computers. But on a serious note, there is no huge userbase somewhere not caring. Majority might not post here like we do, but they watch youtube, read forums etc.

[catamorphism]

Are you just totally ignorant to world leading analogous projects like Blender? It’s crazy how people allow themselves to be so confident on partial understandings of the world.

Trust me that I could write a pretty solid essay on this topic.

[pdxindy]

But calling me a crybabie because I'm pissed that my contract is broken?

I don't know the legalities of this stuff to have a legal opinion, but to me there is no doubt that Bitwig broke the spirit of the agreement.

Even if users had a false assumption of what to expect, Bitwig allowed that assumption to stand and never corrected it and even encouraged it. Then in the middle of peoples 12 month updates, the add-on bomb is dropped.

And Bitwig could not have picked a time more likely to create frustration because most everyone was expecting the next included update to drop and instead of that, something that they have to pay for and no evidence of an update.

User frustration is totally understandable... Bitwig caused this mess.

I already let it go as far as Bitwig (not that anyone else has to)... but it is still annoying when individuals such as polarity say Bitwig did nothing wrong and it is the users fault.

[Phil B]

But calling me a crybabie because I'm pissed that my contract is broken?

I don't know the legalities of this stuff to have a legal opinion, but to me there is no doubt that Bitwig broke the spirit of the agreement.

Even if users had a false assumption of what to expect, Bitwig allowed that assumption to stand and never corrected it and even encouraged it. Then in the middle of peoples 12 month updates, the add-on bomb is dropped.

And Bitwig could not have picked a time more likely to create frustration because most everyone was expecting the next included update to drop and instead of that, something that they have to pay for and no evidence of an update.

User frustration is totally understandable... Bitwig caused this mess.

I already let it go as far as Bitwig (not that anyone else has to)... but it is still annoying when individuals such as polarity say Bitwig did nothing wrong and it is the users fault.

Now THIS should be the sticky at the top of every page! Well put and covers the whole thing succinctly!

(On the legal point, i'm confident they breached the contract ... but almost as confident that it was due to a total screw up in drafting. So, had they gotten the drafting right, it wouldn't be a breach of contract, just the pure "disappointed customer expectation /spirit of the agreement" reputational issue)

[loungepanda]

Now THIS should be the sticky at the top of every page! Well put and covers the whole thing succinctly!

(On the legal point, i'm confident they breached the contract ... but almost as confident that it was due to a total screw up in drafting. So, had they gotten the drafting right, it wouldn't be a breach of contract, just the pure "disappointed customer expectation /spirit of the agreement" reputational issue)

If only your reading comprehension matched your confidence.

[tempsperdu]

Now THIS should be the sticky at the top of every page! Well put and covers the whole thing succinctly!

(On the legal point, i'm confident they breached the contract ... but almost as confident that it was due to a total screw up in drafting. So, had they gotten the drafting right, it wouldn't be a breach of contract, just the pure "disappointed customer expectation /spirit of the agreement" reputational issue)

Even if a 'legal' contract hadn't been breached, the whole way what transpired did was in possibly the worst way imaginable. It shows they have no self-respect or any for anyone else. That's not a good position in any way and ludicrous when you are reliant on users for funding. If this was down to one person's decision then sack them. If it was a consensual opinion how can you not realise you and the plot have become untethered.

[Phil B]

Now THIS should be the sticky at the top of every page! Well put and covers the whole thing succinctly!

(On the legal point, i'm confident they breached the contract ... but almost as confident that it was due to a total screw up in drafting. So, had they gotten the drafting right, it wouldn't be a breach of contract, just the pure "disappointed customer expectation /spirit of the agreement" reputational issue)

Even if a 'legal' contract hadn't been breached, the whole way what transpired did was in possibly the worst way imaginable. It shows they have no self-respect or any for anyone else. That's not a good position in any way and ludicrous when you are reliant on users for funding. If this was down to one person's decision then sack them. If it was a consensual opinion how can you not realise you and the plot have become untethered.

I agree completely!
The fact that they breached the contract is really just the karmic cherry on top

[Sound Author]