[Fixed in 4.4] Weird bug: latest "Spectral Suite" update not included in upgrade plan

[tempsperdu]

I see Benn Jordan has also cut ties with Bitwig.

Indeed...really can't think what is going through Bitwig's collective head. They have a S-Storm of gigantic proportions, and they think they shouldn't respond to their resellers, their users, their trainers, their influencers.....
They desperately need a communications officer except they probably wouldn't tell them anything either.

[simmo75]

I see Benn Jordan has also cut ties with Bitwig.

Indeed...really can't think what is going through Bitwig's collective head. They have a S-Storm of gigantic proportions, and they think they shouldn't respond to their resellers, their users, their trainers, their influencers.....
They desperately need a communications officer except they probably wouldn't tell them anything either.

Wasn’t he the even cockier, more disrespectful one that was super dismissive towards anyone who had issues with Bitwig?

Wow! That’s a change of tune, he must’ve lost some followers. Muppet.

[ChamomileShark]

I see Benn Jordan has also cut ties with Bitwig.

Indeed...really can't think what is going through Bitwig's collective head. They have a S-Storm of gigantic proportions, and they think they shouldn't respond to their resellers, their users, their trainers, their influencers.....
They desperately need a communications officer except they probably wouldn't tell them anything either.

Wasn’t he the even cockier, more disrespectful one that was super dismissive towards anyone who had issues with Bitwig?

Wow! That’s a change of tune, he must’ve lost some followers. Muppet.

He said it was mainly because Bitwig remained silent and just watched people like him take the flak. Someone did tell him though that he'd seriously failed to "read the room" in the initial stream. Which was my take that I posted on the original stream - singling out one KvR member really wasn't ok under any circumstances.

Venus seems much more contrite. Polarity seems to be continuing to push back.

It does feel as if it's getting out of hand with "influencers" also taking an early bath on this. It's Bitwig's fault and they need to put it right, or not, and the customers will then make up their minds about what they will do.

Be interested to see what they come up with tomorrow.

[machinesworking]

None of that is about shifty business practices though, bugs are not fun, even Bitwig has plenty of graphical bugs here, and a lot of them are freaking annoying to try to describe or tell Bitwig about, because there's not rhyme or reason to them, so I don't know when/if they ever 100% go away. Nothing crippling just odd glitches.

Yeah, cause it's not a shifty business practice at all to release a paid update so buggy as to be barely useable... and then to be forced to curtail development for more than a year just to make it stable.

I can never say that bugs are shifty business practice, that's pretty wild to think. I can find bugs in Mac and windows OS, pretty much any software. Like I mentioned I was one of maybe two people that were talking about bugs in the beta, and I was the only one talking loudly about it. At that time Ableton was the company that could do no wrong for it's loyal users, kind of like how people are apologizing for a more direct, not debatable break in a long standing policy is seen as no big deal by some of Bitwigs most loyal users here.

Another part of this is most people experiencing huge bugs in Live 8 did not experience many problems until Max4Live was introduced later after it was put out. I, in some ways I guess was lucky that whatever tags they put in the 8.0 beta for M4L were seriously messing with Lives stability, so to Lives loyal users in the beta I probably seemed hysterical. The introduction of new code and M4L in a later version of 8 is probably mostly where Ableton just crapped the bed. They should have had a long beta for that as well.

Further to the point though, Ableton admitted their wrong doing, fixed 8, and had probably the longest stretch for any DAW ever between 8 and 9, a lot of new features were added to 8 as well. We will see tomorrow if Bitwig has that sort of customer awareness.

Bitwig did something pretty remarkable with the sandboxed plug ins, it's mostly crash free here, I've had errant plug ins hang Bitwig twice in all the time I've used it. So they figured out the most obvious and constant place where bugs in DAWs come from, bugs in third party plugins. It's one of their crowing achievements, and I hardly see a CPU difference between sandboxed and not plug ins here, so I sandbox all of them!

[Held]

I see Benn Jordan has also cut ties with Bitwig.

Indeed...really can't think what is going through Bitwig's collective head. They have a S-Storm of gigantic proportions, and they think they shouldn't respond to their resellers, their users, their trainers, their influencers.....
They desperately need a communications officer except they probably wouldn't tell them anything either.

Wasn’t he the even cockier, more disrespectful one that was super dismissive towards anyone who had issues with Bitwig?

Wow! That’s a change of tune, he must’ve lost some followers. Muppet.

He's still making fun of people, though. So I'm not sure what not using Bitwig anymore is supposed to do for him

I'm not about to give some BS apology for finding some particular posts and hyperbole funny. Y'all crack me up.

But I am going to cease using Bitwig in my streams until the company corrects this. Ignoring it has conveniently led to misdirected anger. Their move now.

(https://twitter.com/bennjordan/status/1 ... 2692781057)

[machinesworking]

Wasn’t he the even cockier, more disrespectful one that was super dismissive towards anyone who had issues with Bitwig?

Wow! That’s a change of tune, he must’ve lost some followers. Muppet.

When you put your "personality" out there as much as the product you're presenting or doing a tutorial on, when the product can do no wrong, you're just a salesman, most "influencers" are just unpaid shills for products that have generated buzz. It's a weird world we live in where people feel that 'cool guy' Dicky Bob hipsters word on a product generates their excitement for it. Seriously, wading through influencers YouTube videos trying to find the one thing in X DAW that the manual isn't clear on etc. is a nightmare. I wish there was an algorithm for tutorial/walkthrough that cut out videos tagged "influencer".

When you find a DAW video that goes over real features not fluff, it's pretty great, but it's not easy, most people like the fluff it seems.

[h2ogun99]

We will learn tomorrow if I'm right about this, but I do not think this came from a place of malice. Urs and U-He are obviously good friends with Bitwig, that says something there. IMO the Update Plan put them in a corner they tried to sneak out of, and the whole thing crashed on them badly.

I tend to think that they just didn't think this through in the first place. Otherwise it seems to me they would have had a response ready. It's hard to remember 90 pages back, but wasn't the FAQ on this written only after the backlash already started?

My guess is they might be one of those companies that think they're so great that they actually confuse things that are in their own best interests with what's good for their customers. I'd expect intentionally slimy behavior to be better thought out than this.

You're probably right, I'm still not convinced that there isn't some financial reason for this, people have said their numbers look good, but IMO the Update plan opens them up for less consistency than upgrades, and they looked to resolve that. It's hard for me to imagine there wasn't at least one employee that thought this was a terrible idea though, unless they have a truly top down approach to the business and no one but the CEO gets to decide these things.

I will give them the benefit of the doubt and stand on the side that their intentions were pure.

If I were to jump on the speculation train... at some point, it was decided that these plugins (if released in an update) would have caused the community to pitch a fit because, and let's be honest here, they are specialized, and the vast majority of users would tinker with them a few times and move on. To avoid the "wHeRe's mSeG?!?!", someone thought, "hey, let's just sell them separately to the group of users that will find these useful in the first place and avoid the backlash." Haha.

They clearly never predicted the core of the reactor would melt over this, and based on the heaping pile of comments that range from reasonable to ridiculous all over the interwebs, has had to work on a solution...which takes time. Anything they say will be used against them, so no, they can't just hop into KVR and post or tweet out something. They get one chance, and there is no doubt that sleepless nights have occurred and revision after revision of the response plan has been made so that when they do speak, it has the best possible outcome. Not sure what the hurry is for most that are outraged. They'll get the damn plugins, I'm sure. We all should give Bitwig time to make this right, both for their customers and for their company. I would only wish that for myself if I faced a similar situation in life.

[HBIII]

Benn Jordan doesn’t give a sh*t about anyone but himself. Which he usually makes painfully obvious.

[tempsperdu]

If I were to jump on the speculation train... at some point, it was decided that these plugins (if released in an update) would have caused the community to pitch a fit because, and let's be honest here, they are specialized, and the vast majority of users would tinker with them a few times and move on. To avoid the "wHeRe's mSeG?!?!", someone thought, "hey, let's just sell them separately to the group of users that will find these useful in the first place and avoid the backlash." Haha.

If this were the case they could have calmed people easily by just posting, we will sort this out, just give us some time please. I doubt that could possibly be worse than totally blanking everyone. Another thing that added fuel was people saying Polarity had been in communication and that they were supposedly sticking to their guns so to speak.

[liquidsound]

Maybe there is a huge split in the company over this new direction, and they need to sort it out among themself first, before going public...

[pdxindy]

Polarity seems to be continuing to push back.

Polarity has been awful... Bitwig did nothing wrong, it is all users fault and so smug and condescending about it. My impression is that he is enjoying getting under peoples skin and stirring the pot. I think he is doing Bitwig a disservice by continuing to inflame users frustrations.

[spiritlev]

The best part about this thread is the guys trying to convince all of us that this entire thing is not a bad deal.
lol

We went from :
You pay 170$ annual -> get everything that releases for the software. You know the GRID? that MASSIVE thing in Bitwig? You got it by the annual plan. Not 99$ Extra.

To:
You pay 170$ annual -> You get what now is subjectively part of the software and You have to pay extra for things that are now subjectively considered "extra" or "niche" or whatever. By the way it costs 99$

Last year, your spending in Bitwig was 170$. This year is 269$ if you "WaNt To gEt SEpARaTe PrOdUCtS~ "

This is a joke.

I doubt they are planning on only releasing one add-on per year...

So probably more like $170 > $368+

[gentleclockdivider]

Benn Jordan doesn’t give a sh*t about anyone but himself. Which he usually makes painfully obvious.

So you know him in person ?

[Etienne1973]

Can't say I blame them for abandoning the forums, were like a school of Pirahna.

Somehow hard to define where are the good karma people.

[h2ogun99]

Maybe there is a huge split in the company over this new direction, and they need to sort it out among themself first, before going public...

It is very reasonable to think that they are working on it and that people within their organization have opinions on the direction to take.

This is extremely complicated for a business and not something that can be dealt with via a "we're working on it, give us some time" message. It's not that simple and won't make much of an impact. The torches will stay lit, regardless. I do feel they care for their company and customers and are not ignoring this out of obstinance. We have to ask ourselves what logic is there in that. They have families to care for and professional/personal goals in life. Four spectral plugins are not worth falling on their sword over - it makes no sense.