OB-Xtreme Version 2 - FULL VERSION RELEASED!

[BONES]

So an opinion that you agree with is fine but it's completely unacceptable for anyone to have a contrary opinion? Whatever happened to free speech?

I'd say it has to be exhausting but every post is arguing simply for arguing.

If people didn't say dumb shit all the time, I wouldn't have to post at all. Comments about value read-outs, for example, negate every classic synth ever made. It suggests that nobody could make any useful timbres from an Odyssey or OB-Xa.

In his mind it's impossible for anyone else to have an opinion.

The thing with opinions is that they are like arseholes - everyone has them but some stink worse than others. Letting real stinkers stand makes it hard for people with no experience to sort the sweet smells from the rotten.

Hopefully the plug will be fixed because yes, these things are important to many people.

Many people who have no confidence in what they are doing.

Is it a huge issue that the synth doesn't show semi-tone values? Not really. Hardware doesn't either. But should it? Yeah.

It used to bug the shit out of me when I first got Odyssey but I got over it when I realised how stupidly simple it is to do it by ear.

I think the only other synth I have in my collection that doesn't is OB-Xd. Literally every other synth plugin I own will (to the best of my recollection).

I don't think Obsession does, does it? It definitely moves in semitones, though, which is a different thing and exactly what OB-Xtreme does. The original post I responded to was complaining because there were trailing decimal points, which is petty and stupid by any measure.

[briefcasemanx]

If every knob on every was infinitely rotatable with no numbers or markings to give any indication of where you are in each parameters range, that would be annoying. It's music, you could still figure it out and make cool sounds, just an annoyance. You could still make cool sounds if the knobs weren't even labeled with what their function is, just a synth full of nondescript knobs with no start and stop points. You could make great sounds with that too, it would just be extra annoying.

Sometimes some people want annoyances cleared from their products. To other people certain things might not be seen as annoyances, and that's okay too.

[Septic Underground]

Comments about value read-outs, for example, negate every classic synth ever made. It suggests that nobody could make any useful timbres from an Odyssey or OB-Xa.

Really?
How sad.

[machinesworking]

The AU version doesn't show any values at all. I figured he would implement it at some point. Have to agree it's simply not that big of a deal. One man show, $50 or so, it sounds fantastic. What is there to complain about?

[freecham]

I love the sonic character of this synth and so far I really don't regret buying it. I hope that the small details will be improved: the oscillator tuning setting also bothers me, I find that the button is not very precise and the synth could remember the last skin used. Nothing too serious in general !

https://soundcloud.com/user-587768598/l ... b-xtreme-2

[Echoes in the Attic]

Comments about value read-outs, for example, negate every classic synth ever made. It suggests that nobody could make any useful timbres from an Odyssey or OB-Xa.

Yes and why do we have patch recall in DAW projects? Hardware didn't have that, so why do we have it? Why not have to print audio for all soft synths? Why even have midi. You're not seriously doing the "why should a plugin do something the hardware didn't do" argument are you?

Hopefully the plug will be fixed because yes, these things are important to many people.

Many people who have no confidence in what they are doing.

Or people who write/edit automation. Oh but wait, that doesn't count if you don't do it, because only your workflow matters.

Is it a huge issue that the synth doesn't show semi-tone values? Not really. Hardware doesn't either. But should it? Yeah.

It used to bug the shit out of me when I first got Odyssey but I got over it when I realised how stupidly simple it is to do it by ear.

Well done. And totally beside the point.

I think the only other synth I have in my collection that doesn't is OB-Xd. Literally every other synth plugin I own will (to the best of my recollection).

I don't think Obsession does, does it? It definitely moves in semitones, though, which is a different thing and exactly what OB-Xtreme does. The original post I responded to was complaining because there were trailing decimal points, which is petty and stupid by any measure.

Yes of course Obsession does, as does pretty well every plugin. The trailing decimals was obviously not the point, it was a semi-tone value being represented as something random like -0.66894. And about other inconsistencies in ranges. It isn't the major issue you seem to be saying others think it is, but is a fix worth doing. I think it would be good for the plugin to be competitive and have industry standard features like proper units reported to DAWs for automation. It can only help sales, not hurt it. Don't you want this dev to be successful? I personally prefer when a plugin I buy is popular and meets the expectations of many people, keeping the company in business. Your personal lack of concern of a commonly used feature is of little importance to how it will be viewed by many customers.

[Aly James]

First thank you all for your interest and the fact you like how it sounds!
Let me answer a few questions regarding some details here and there:

The OSC tuning parameters are internally in octave division, not "random"
1/12 = 1 semitone so:

• 1 = +1 OCT deviation

• 2 = +2 OCT etc

This is what is reported to the DAW.
I recon this could be an issue for some as this make little sense when you read the parameter value transmitted to the DAW or see it displayed on your external controller, It would rather be in semitones (like 12 = +1OCT)
So why is this like that?
Simply because some parameters are legacy from the original OB-Xtreme version 1 I made in 2014.
In order to not break presets and banks compatibility I could not change the internal parameter range for the oldest ones (OSC tuning are) made at a time when I didn't care much about such details.

There is also a decimal point at the parameter level because OSC frequency tuning values are not scaled in semitones internally, OSC2 for example can be set to "OSC 2 PITCH SCALING: OFF".

However I can do one thing: displaying the tuning in semitones when you grab an OSC tuning knob, the value would appear above the knob and would also display just by clicking without moving just to see where it's at.
For OSC 2 it will display a decimal point only when set to not scaled.
Would you like something like this?
it wouldn't break anything and could be added in an update.



It won't solve the automation range reported to the DAW but still could be useful for those who don't like to do it by ear
If you are really drawing precise automation at the semitone level you shouldn't be bothered by doing one little division to know what to enter in the automation lane.. wants to add a little staircase shift in semitones like +3 +7 +9... enter 3/12, 7/12 and 9/12..

Last but not least in v2.0.1 you can ALT+Click on the DETUNE knob to reset it to perfect 0

I think somebody said that the Audiounit did not show or report automation values..
well it is:

[Echoes in the Attic]

First thank you all for your interest and the fact you like how it sounds!
Let me answer a few questions regarding some details here and there:

The OSC tuning parameters are internally in octave division, not "random"
1/12 = 1 semitone so:

• 1 = +1 OCT deviation

• 2 = +2 OCT etc

This is what is reported to the DAW.
I recon this could be an issue for some as this make little sense when you read the parameter value transmitted to the DAW or see it displayed on your external controller, It would rather be in semitones (like 12 = +1OCT)
So why is this like that?
Simply because some parameters are legacy from the original OB-Xtreme version 1 I made in 2014.
In order to not break presets and banks compatibility I could not change the internal parameter range for the oldest ones (OSC tuning are) made at a time when I didn't care much about such details.

There is also a decimal point at the parameter level because OSC frequency tuning values are not scaled in semitones internally, OSC2 for example can be set to "OSC 2 PITCH SCALING: OFF".

However I can do one thing: displaying the tuning in semitones when you grab an OSC tuning knob, the value would appear above the knob and would also display just by clicking without moving just to see where it's at.
For OSC 2 it will display a decimal point only when set to not scaled.
Would you like something like this?
it wouldn't break anything and could be added in an update.



It won't solve the automation range reported to the DAW but still could be useful for those who don't like to do it by ear
If you are really drawing precise automation at the semitone level you shouldn't be bothered by doing one little division to know what to enter in the automation lane.. wants to add a little staircase shift in semitones like +3 +7 +9... enter 3/12, 7/12 and 9/12..

Last but not least in v2.0.1 you can ALT+Click on the DETUNE knob to reset it to perfect 0

I think somebody said that the Audiounit did not show or report automation values..
well it is:

I'm sure that display would be useful to many to see the semi-tone shift. I'm personally less concerned about the readout, and more thinking about automation and modulation in Bitwig. It's much nicer to see semi-tones. But again not a huge deal, just saying many people might appreciate that improvement at some point. I was also just curious why some buttons rather than reporting on/off values, have things like 0 or 10, or 10 or 20. Again not a huge deal but some buttons actually report the real values and some don't. I'm guessing left over from V1.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Seems to be some weird quoting issue going on with KVR? That doesn't look right above but seems normal in the editor.

[machinesworking]

I think somebody said that the Audiounit did not show or report automation values..
well it is:

It's reporting automation to the DAW, I'm just not getting any decimal readout for parameters or in the waveform in the lower left on the OB-Xtreme GUI, in Logic, Live and in Digital Performer running the Intel AU Rosseta verison.

The Bender knob shows +/- 12, that's it.

[machinesworking]

Seems to be some weird quoting issue going on with KVR? That doesn't look right above but seems normal in the editor.

Echoes and Bones blank quotes are in yours and Alys replys, that's why. They don't need to be quoted at all, just a mistake, that's why my reply doesn't have their blank quotes messing up the structure, I took them out.

[BONES]

Yes and why do we have patch recall in DAW projects?

Because it saves time and effort.

Why not have to print audio for all soft synths?

I haven't owned a printer for 15 years.

Why even have midi.

Because we only have two hands.

You're not seriously doing the "why should a plugin do something the hardware didn't do" argument are you?

No, I'm just saying that it adds nothing of any value (pun intended). Does your patch sound better because the value readout is 2, not 2.0000? Does it make it easier in any way to get your work done? No, it does not. It's just pedantry, as though you were desperate to find fault and that's the only thing you could think of to complainn about.

Or people who write/edit automation. Oh but wait, that doesn't count if you don't do it, because only your workflow matters.

People with confidence play their automation in. It's the obvious and fastest way. Of course, it's often necessary to go in and tidy it up but you can do that without knowing what the values are at any point, because we have ears that can inform that work. But you need to have confidence in your ears, to trust them to get it right. It's the same with my work. We're supposed to be pedantic about exact RGB or CMYK values for corporate colours and stuff like that but I always just do it by eye and nobody ever notices.

Is it a huge issue that the synth doesn't show semi-tone values? Not really. Hardware doesn't either. But should it? Yeah.

It used to bug the shit out of me when I first got Odyssey but I got over it when I realised how stupidly simple it is to do it by ear.

Well done. And totally beside the point.

No, that's what we call a poignant example. Something from real experience that's relevant to the point under discussion.

Yes of course Obsession does, as does pretty well every plugin.

I'll take your word for it, I've never really noticed on any synth. It's actualyl too dangerous for me to notice because if I could see values, I'd have to make them appropriate numbers.Whole numbers for preference, otherwise divisible by 4 or 8. Nice, rounded looking umbers. If you look at the 100 or so songs I've made in Studio One, for example, you will not find a single mixer channel whose fader isn't in a whole number position. It would be way too untidy to have decimals. That's how anal-retentive I am, yet I still think you're worse.

The trailing decimals was obviously not the point, it was a semi-tone value being represented as something random like -0.66894.

As long as it's consistent, I don't see a problem. You can copy/paste a keyframe with a value of -0.66894 as easily as one with -3.

[Echoes in the Attic]

You're not seriously doing the "why should a plugin do something the hardware didn't do" argument are you?

No, I'm just saying that it adds nothing of any value (pun intended). Does your patch sound better because the value readout is 2, not 2.0000? Does it make it easier in any way to get your work done? No, it does not.

You're still hung up on an aspect of this that doesn't matter at all, which is the decimals. Who cares about the decimals. The whole numbers part isn't the problem. I thought this was obvious but maybe you didn't quite catch the point afterall. It's having semi-tones over a decimal range that isn't ideal. For example rather than just reporting the semi-tones as the values, to go up 4 semi-tones you have to put the value somewhere between 1.2999 to around 1.359. Then 5 semi-tones is around 1.379 to about 1.439. Also, changes in the knob position doesn't result in corresponding changes to the sound. Sometimes you move your mouse and the semi-tone changes btu the knob doesn't, or vice versa. Generally it's good for UIs to match the sound alteration. The notches aren't quite aligned right to changes in semi-tones.
Or for example the ADSR ranges are 0-10 for attack and sustain, but 0-11 for decay and release. Sweet they go to 11! Just a few little oddities, not a huge deal at all, it's just better to be consistent when it comes to reporting knob values to DAWs. Wouldn't stop me from using it.

Does it sound better? No. Does patch recall make your patches sound better?
To quote you:

Yes and why do we have patch recall in DAW projects?

Because it saves time and effort.

It's just pedantry, as though you were desperate to find fault and that's the only thing you could think of to complainn about.

I underestimated how perceptive you are! Yes I went ahead and bought a plugin, was extremely happy with the sound, and therefor just couldn't wait to complain. Thankfully I found a minor issue with the parameter units, that I pretended to present as suggestion for potential improvement, knowing that many others would feel the same way given there is a standard way plugins tend to function in this regard, therefor making it an excellent excuse through which to express my uncontrollable desire to complain. I should actually be thanking the developer for giving me that opportunity to have a suggestion, otherwise I may have gone into some kind of whine repression induced coma. I thought I masked it so well. I would have gotten away with it too if it weren't for you meddling kids!

[BONES]

You're still hung up on an aspect of this that doesn't matter at all, which is the decimals. Who cares about the decimals.

You do. Would you like me to quote your post on the subject?

It's having semi-tones over a decimal range that isn't ideal. For example rather than just reporting the semi-tones as the values, to go up 4 semi-tones you have to put the value somewhere between 1.2999 to around 1.359. Then 5 semi-tones is around 1.379 to about 1.439. Also, changes in the knob position doesn't result in corresponding changes to the sound. Sometimes you move your mouse and the semi-tone changes btu the knob doesn't, or vice versa. Generally it's good for UIs to match the sound alteration. The notches aren't quite aligned right to changes in semi-tones.

I find those very weird expectations, I'm not even looking at a knob when I move it, I'm listening to the way it changes the sound.

Or for example the ADSR ranges are 0-10 for attack and sustain, but 0-11 for decay and release.

I could use a synth for years and never notice irrelevant shit like that (because it's irrelevant). bx_oberhausen reports ADSR settings in milliseconds, which probably makes you wet yourself with glee but seems utterly useless unless you know what number of ms are going to work with whatever tempo you're using. As long as I can change the value and hear the result, I'm golden.

[Echoes in the Attic]

You're still hung up on an aspect of this that doesn't matter at all, which is the decimals. Who cares about the decimals.

You do. Would you like me to quote your post on the subject?

I'll do it for you:

Had to buy it. In terms of sounding like an actual analog synth, this sits up there with softube imo. Can't find any fault in the sound. Fat as hell.

I really don't like the tune units BEING FROM -1.0000 TO 3.00000 with all the decimals in between even though it appears to jump in semi-tones. The values exposed to the DAW should be what they actually are (ie. semi- tones) so you can automate properly and also see real values on controller displays.

It's not the number of decimals that matters, it is the fact that it's reported as a continuous range between octaves in terms of decimals, but it isn't continuous, it jumps in semi-tones. I didn't say the problem is they use too many decimals anywhere there, I said that it uses a decimal range between integers which isn't the unit of the parameter. I'm pretty sure you aren't this dumb, so stop with the straw man crap. It isn't a big deal, but why pretend like someone is making an argument they aren't? The developer offered an explanation and a UI addition that might help people. You aren't helping.