Why does ACE sound so much better than Bazille?

[Bulbizarre]

ACE is the only u-he synth I don't have, but I've tried it and while sounding amazing I didn't click immediatly with it. I found Bazille to sound very crisp, especially with the effects, but even with the HQ turned on, sometimes it aliases too much. My guess is ACE is closest to Diva but with a modular approach, if that's your thing

[Blogbert]

It may sound odd, but my problem with both is, that they are limiting me (althogh they are modular), with Pigments or Phase Plant I come more far in fewer time. So I use them pretty seldom TBH. But who knows, maybe there will come the time, where I do more with them...

I also prefer the sound of ACE over Bazille. But, I hate the pre-wired connections in ACE; I find them so confusing that I get put off every time I try to learn to use the synth (because when I look at the labels on the interface, I don't know which ones are true labels and which ones are overridden as soon as I patch in a connection). Anyway, Bazille is my favourite synth for sound design. To me, it is the interface as much as the sound that makes Bazille special. (Granted, my opinion is quite idiosyncratic; lots of people have different priorities to mine and prefer other modular/semi-modular synths.)

I've never managed to get inspired using Pigments or Phase Plant. Of the two, Phase Plant is the more exciting to me in terms of its features, but I've never managed to encounter the kinds of weird and wonderful unexpected sound design results that I stumble across while using Bazille. I think it's because of the layout/interface. As I add more stuff to a Phase Plant patch, I end up having to group and minimise things, and then they are no longer immediately visible/accessible. As well, the connections between modules are also invisible, so it is no longer immediately visible what is going on in the patch, and so I lose track.

With Bazille, almost everything is together on one page, and all connections are always visible. Bazille patches look complicated when you load presets, but when you build patches from scratch, I think that thanks to the cabling, it is easy to keep at least a rough intuitive grasp of what is going on. This design allows me to keep a basic mental model in my mind of what is happening, so I can think "what if I tweak such-and-such parameter back here in the signal chain", and that parameter is immediately visible and able to be tweaked without any scrolling or un-minimizing.

Maybe I could achieve a better intuitive fluency with Phase Plant if I spent more time with it. Nevertheless, I think the one-page design and total visibility of connections offers something of real value in terms of intuitiveness. (Of course, some people actually like dialling in modulation using a mod matrix; I acknowledge that mine isn't the only view about what is intuitive).

[Ploki]

It may sound odd, but my problem with both is, that they are limiting me (althogh they are modular), with Pigments or Phase Plant I come more far in fewer time. So I use them pretty seldom TBH. But who knows, maybe there will come the time, where I do more with them...

I also prefer the sound of ACE over Bazille. But, I hate the pre-wired connections in ACE; I find them so confusing that I get put off every time I try to learn to use the synth (because when I look at the labels on the interface, I don't know which ones are true labels and which ones are overridden as soon as I patch in a connection). Anyway, Bazille is my favourite synth for sound design. To me, it is the interface as much as the sound that makes Bazille special. (Granted, my opinion is quite idiosyncratic; lots of people have different priorities to mine and prefer other modular/semi-modular synths.)

Ugh, i'm currently working on an ACE skin to address just that (default connections, hard wires, and labels).

It confuses the hell out of me as well. Should've just made a default patch prewired and not hardcoded.

[Blogbert]

Ugh, i'm currently working on an ACE skin to address just that (default connections, hard wires, and labels).

It confuses the hell out of me as well. Should've just made a default patch prewired and not hardcoded.

I agree that a default patch that was simply pre-wired would be preferable.

I understand the reasons why ACE was designed this way, and I accept that some people find ACE easier to learn than Bazille... but that won't stop me from saying that I find those design choices confusing and unhelpful!

[zerocrossing]

What do you think?

I think Bazille sounds amazing! Bazille is my favorite synth ever!

Agreed. Bazille has a kind of what I think of as “wool” in the tone that is rare in software. I like ACE too, but it’s a more “plastic” kind of tone. Like a nice wool blanket compared to a polyester microfiber one. Of course those words fail, it’s just my mental shorthand in describing character.

ACE is easier because it has normalized wiring.

To my weird brain, it makes it harder.

[petedako]

ACE normalized wiring makes it behave very much like a semi modular hardware synth. The "any cable everywhere" idea was a wonderful introduction to the concepts of synthesis before Bazille came along. To my mind both ACE & BAZ have super sweet sounds, with an awesome range and versatilty.

Do any other old forum members recall another BETA modular u-he synth being developed here in KVR years ago… code name may have started with an M - Metropolis or Munich or something?, it may have even been an earlier version of bazilla

[Ploki]

ACE normalized wiring makes it behave very much like a semi modular hardware synth. The "any cable everywhere" idea was a wonderful introduction to the concepts of synthesis before Bazille came along. To my mind both ACE & BAZ have super sweet sounds, with an awesome range and versatilty.

Do any other old forum members recall another BETA modular u-he synth being developed here in KVR years ago… code name may have started with an M - Metropolis or Munich or something?, it may have even been an earlier version of bazilla

Berlin Modular?
viewtopic.php?t=258683

[petedako]

Oh yeah cool… that must be it. Thanks Ploki

Berlin Modular?
viewtopic.php?t=258683

[masterhiggins]

Bazille truly is a work of art. I wish u-he ported some of the modules to voltage modular so I could experiment switching out its oscillators for the VM901 or one of the 2500 oscillators. I’m not saying bazille’s oscs are bad in any way. Just more of an extreme curiosity if how it would sound.

[vurt]

so bazille is fawlty towers, is ace red dwarf?

[pekbro]

For me as well, ACE is the only u-he synth I do not own and don't really expect to ever buy. Never clicked with it.

*Dark zebra as well, too cheap to buy that so far, and I don't really care about batman.

[vurt]

I don't really care about batman.

luckily, batman cares about you

[pekbro]

I don't really care about batman.

luckily, batman cares about you

Sry, I should have specified the movie. I do like Batman, also HS as for HZ, well that's another one I
am not going to go out of my way for. In any event, seems like I will have to get the DZ at some point anyway, what with Z3 and all.

[david.beholder]

Not enough clickbait in title. Should be something like "Why does magnificent organic ACE sound so much better than average mass-market Bazille?"

[Dirtgrain]

"Ace eviscerates Bazille"