Vital - Released

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Vital Vital Ascendant (Vital Content Pack)
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FrogsInPants
KVRist
354 posts since 4 Nov, 2019

Post Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:34 pm

petedako wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:51 pm Thanks Froginpanz!'
I *think* this is *exactly* what I did last time and again before posting today but will try it again.
Is there anywhere else to look on our drives?
It might put them somewhere else if you export to WAV from the wavetable editor, but I don't know.

ftech
KVRian
1121 posts since 8 Oct, 2004 from Australia

Post Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:01 pm

El°HYM wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:29 am Exactly, understanding Sine - Waves is pretty fundamental.
This is genius! :lol:

Fannon
KVRist
141 posts since 13 Jul, 2006

Post Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:07 pm

pdxindy wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:50 am
Fannon wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:45 pm Maybe age / (natural) hearing loss can also explain some different experiences here?
Over 30 here. Can't hear those harsh frequencies (basically everything above 15-16khz) anyway. Vital sounds good to me :)

Would be interested in which frequency range this happens, with a spectrum analyzer you can at least see / identify that if it is really noticable.
There's no meaningful difference with a spectrum analyzer between Vital and a variety of other synths using a single SAW wave. Playing C4 and C3 and C2 and using the Bitwig Spectrum Device which allows 2 signals at once, I compared Vital with Hive, Dune, Poly Grid (Bitwig), ACE and Icarus.

At 44.1khz, Dune has a touch of roll off that starts at 16 khz and by 20khz is maybe 3 dB down. Vital and Hive are so close one can hardly see that there are 2 curves. ACE is maybe -1dB by 20khz, Icarus is maybe +1dB, PolyGrid is about -4dB at 20khz.

At 48khz Dune is still down a few dB at 20khz and rest are pretty flat.

At 96khz they are all flat to over 30khz.

This is all with filters bypassed. Once you turn filters on, the high end is more affected than differences in this test. Turn one Vital filter on and the high end drops about 7db by 20khz even with the filter fully open.

None of them, including Vital sound harsh in the highs... just slightly more or less energy. And once you are doing sound design, that will define the sound.
Thanks that is exactly the answer I was looking for! Facts and Measurements :)
Will try around with this as well, just to get a feel for the differences. But the numbers you already indicate that almost no one would be physically able to hear the differences in such a "plain saw wave" scenario.

But I do get that once you start using filters and more aspects of a synth, the character of a synth will come out / adds up, especially when there are also non linearities involved.

Btw. I do like to put some more analog sounding plugins after Vital - like Klanghelm SDRR (https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/SDRR.html) or MJUC. In general, I like some types of plugins and effect to be more clean and unopinionated, as you can add some types of coloration after it anyway.

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LFO8
KVRian
856 posts since 21 Jul, 2012

Post Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:39 pm

Fannon wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:07 pmBut I do get that once you start using filters and more aspects of a synth, the character of a synth will come out / adds up, especially when there are also non linearities involved.
Yes, that’s where the differences start to show as each synth uses different filter and fx topologies. But when talking at oscillator level. Serum or Vital.. they can be so closely matched when loaded with the same wave table. No meaningful differences there.

Wether you prefer the way of working in one synth or the other or the filters, fx etc is another matter.

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Chris-S
KVRAF
2881 posts since 10 Nov, 2013 from Germany

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:31 am

I don't find a setting for the ping pong delay where the first ping should be occuring.
Most synths do it on the L channel but Vital does it on the R channel.

Also is there any difference when using neg. feedback (eg. -40% vs 40%) ?

mabian
KVRAF
2397 posts since 10 Jan, 2005

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:39 am

Chris-S wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:31 am I don't find a setting for the ping pong delay where the first ping should be occuring.
Most synths do it on the L channel but Vital does it on the R channel.

Also is there any difference when using neg. feedback (eg. -40% vs 40%) ?
Try checking here... (found on Google)

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... okline.pdf

- Mario

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astralprojection
Banned
365 posts since 30 Jun, 2019

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:34 am

LFO8 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 am Seems like my video sparked some discussion.. :D

Allright then.. for the connoisseurs: Which one is Vital?
https://youtu.be/kG_6gibpBW8

:ud:
are they both the same, i mean are synth b synth b on both phrases or could they be switched ?
comparisons like this are always hard .. you did a very fine job matching them both. which is the other synth? sounds a bit like dune but ofc could be anything. and you made vital sound nice, whichever it is. im gonna go out on a limb and take a guess thats synth b is vital.
i just seem to hear slightly more upper harmonic noise than synth a. but i admit this was very hard.
and please dont bully me if im wrong, you made it as close as i think anyone could make it.

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LFO8
KVRian
856 posts since 21 Jul, 2012

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:36 am

No worries.. No bullying from my end.

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astralprojection
Banned
365 posts since 30 Jun, 2019

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:40 am

LFO8 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:36 am No worries.. No bullying from my end.
Did you eq or process them differently so they would sound more alike or are they both raw from the synth.

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LFO8
KVRian
856 posts since 21 Jul, 2012

Post Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:56 pm

astralprojection wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:40 am
LFO8 wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:36 am No worries.. No bullying from my end.
Did you eq or process them differently so they would sound more alike or are they both raw from the synth.
No processing applied. There is a Claro EQ inserted at the beginning of each as that is a part of my default channel template, but no EQ applied, everything set to zero. Volume being matched with channel faders.

chagzuki
KVRAF
2872 posts since 26 Mar, 2002 from london

Post Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:04 am

No idea really, but B sounds a bit tighter and richer in the lower-mid-range on my laptop speakers, the reason for which could be many things, a filter that slightly emphasises the mids, a tiny bit more detune... a slightly more punchy envelope. Though the phasing of the detune sounds a bit crisper on B also, and I vaguely remember old videos on Vital suggesting that there was some lag or stepping on certain things... actually which probably have nothing to do with detune, but perhaps the internal resolution for some aspects of Vital is not as tight as in other synths. There's also Wavetable aliasing/artefacts, and Serum is pristine in that respect... I doubt Vital is. So that might also have a tiny impact on the crispness of detune... though it might not be audible. But we don't know what the other synth is here and whether it has artefact-free wavetable reproduction. So I would just guess that A is Vital? Having said that A could be Pigments.
Every day takes figuring out all over again how to f#ckin’ live.

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LFO8
KVRian
856 posts since 21 Jul, 2012

Post Thu Dec 08, 2022 10:44 am

chagzuki wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:04 am No idea really, but B sounds a bit tighter and richer in the lower-mid-range on my laptop speakers, the reason for which could be many things, a filter that slightly emphasises the mids, a tiny bit more detune... a slightly more punchy envelope.
Envelope settings are the same on both and no filtering or effects applied.
chagzuki wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:04 am But we don't know what the other synth is here and whether it has artefact-free wavetable reproduction.
And there’s a reason I never disclosed what the other synth was as the assignment was to pick out Vital based on sound alone. Some were claiming that Vital has a distinct recognizable sound.

Fannon
KVRist
141 posts since 13 Jul, 2006

Post Sat Dec 10, 2022 3:57 am

LFO8 wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 11:10 am Seems like my video sparked some discussion.. :D

Allright then.. for the connoisseurs: Which one is Vital?
https://youtu.be/kG_6gibpBW8

:ud:
Interesting challenge you put out. I'm not (yet) deep into it to really be able to hear which synth is which. My overall impression is that the Synth B has a more stereo separation? I'm not really sure. If this is embedded in a track, I would not be able to tell a difference for sure.

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Igro
KVRAF
4598 posts since 26 Apr, 2007 from Noosphere

Post Sat Dec 10, 2022 12:56 pm

First is Vital. It has a slightly shorter decay, because I know it is harder to adjust. But then, maybe you managed to do the exactly the opposite way. I never heard Serums decay though.
Also, Vital has a slightly pronounced "sizzling" in the unison.

This is the first time I took part in blind a/b tests. :D

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LFO8
KVRian
856 posts since 21 Jul, 2012

Post Sun Dec 11, 2022 6:38 am

Synth B was Vital:
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