Vital - Released

[FrogsInPants]

Thanks Froginpanz!'
I *think* this is *exactly* what I did last time and again before posting today but will try it again.
Is there anywhere else to look on our drives?

It might put them somewhere else if you export to WAV from the wavetable editor, but I don't know.

[ftech]

Exactly, understanding Sine - Waves is pretty fundamental.

This is genius!

[Fannon]

Maybe age / (natural) hearing loss can also explain some different experiences here?
Over 30 here. Can't hear those harsh frequencies (basically everything above 15-16khz) anyway. Vital sounds good to me

Would be interested in which frequency range this happens, with a spectrum analyzer you can at least see / identify that if it is really noticable.

There's no meaningful difference with a spectrum analyzer between Vital and a variety of other synths using a single SAW wave. Playing C4 and C3 and C2 and using the Bitwig Spectrum Device which allows 2 signals at once, I compared Vital with Hive, Dune, Poly Grid (Bitwig), ACE and Icarus.

At 44.1khz, Dune has a touch of roll off that starts at 16 khz and by 20khz is maybe 3 dB down. Vital and Hive are so close one can hardly see that there are 2 curves. ACE is maybe -1dB by 20khz, Icarus is maybe +1dB, PolyGrid is about -4dB at 20khz.

At 48khz Dune is still down a few dB at 20khz and rest are pretty flat.

At 96khz they are all flat to over 30khz.

This is all with filters bypassed. Once you turn filters on, the high end is more affected than differences in this test. Turn one Vital filter on and the high end drops about 7db by 20khz even with the filter fully open.

None of them, including Vital sound harsh in the highs... just slightly more or less energy. And once you are doing sound design, that will define the sound.

Thanks that is exactly the answer I was looking for! Facts and Measurements
Will try around with this as well, just to get a feel for the differences. But the numbers you already indicate that almost no one would be physically able to hear the differences in such a "plain saw wave" scenario.

But I do get that once you start using filters and more aspects of a synth, the character of a synth will come out / adds up, especially when there are also non linearities involved.

Btw. I do like to put some more analog sounding plugins after Vital - like Klanghelm SDRR (https://klanghelm.com/contents/products/SDRR.html) or MJUC. In general, I like some types of plugins and effect to be more clean and unopinionated, as you can add some types of coloration after it anyway.

[LFO8]

But I do get that once you start using filters and more aspects of a synth, the character of a synth will come out / adds up, especially when there are also non linearities involved.

Yes, that’s where the differences start to show as each synth uses different filter and fx topologies. But when talking at oscillator level. Serum or Vital.. they can be so closely matched when loaded with the same wave table. No meaningful differences there.

Wether you prefer the way of working in one synth or the other or the filters, fx etc is another matter.

[Chris-S]

I don't find a setting for the ping pong delay where the first ping should be occuring.
Most synths do it on the L channel but Vital does it on the R channel.

Also is there any difference when using neg. feedback (eg. -40% vs 40%) ?

[mabian]

I don't find a setting for the ping pong delay where the first ping should be occuring.
Most synths do it on the L channel but Vital does it on the R channel.

Also is there any difference when using neg. feedback (eg. -40% vs 40%) ?

Try checking here... (found on Google)

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... okline.pdf

- Mario

[astralprojection]

Seems like my video sparked some discussion..

Allright then.. for the connoisseurs: Which one is Vital?
https://youtu.be/kG_6gibpBW8

are they both the same, i mean are synth b synth b on both phrases or could they be switched ?
comparisons like this are always hard .. you did a very fine job matching them both. which is the other synth? sounds a bit like dune but ofc could be anything. and you made vital sound nice, whichever it is. im gonna go out on a limb and take a guess thats synth b is vital.
i just seem to hear slightly more upper harmonic noise than synth a. but i admit this was very hard.
and please dont bully me if im wrong, you made it as close as i think anyone could make it.

[LFO8]

No worries.. No bullying from my end.

[astralprojection]

No worries.. No bullying from my end.

Did you eq or process them differently so they would sound more alike or are they both raw from the synth.

[LFO8]

No worries.. No bullying from my end.

Did you eq or process them differently so they would sound more alike or are they both raw from the synth.

No processing applied. There is a Claro EQ inserted at the beginning of each as that is a part of my default channel template, but no EQ applied, everything set to zero. Volume being matched with channel faders.

[chagzuki]

No idea really, but B sounds a bit tighter and richer in the lower-mid-range on my laptop speakers, the reason for which could be many things, a filter that slightly emphasises the mids, a tiny bit more detune... a slightly more punchy envelope. Though the phasing of the detune sounds a bit crisper on B also, and I vaguely remember old videos on Vital suggesting that there was some lag or stepping on certain things... actually which probably have nothing to do with detune, but perhaps the internal resolution for some aspects of Vital is not as tight as in other synths. There's also Wavetable aliasing/artefacts, and Serum is pristine in that respect... I doubt Vital is. So that might also have a tiny impact on the crispness of detune... though it might not be audible. But we don't know what the other synth is here and whether it has artefact-free wavetable reproduction. So I would just guess that A is Vital? Having said that A could be Pigments.

[LFO8]

No idea really, but B sounds a bit tighter and richer in the lower-mid-range on my laptop speakers, the reason for which could be many things, a filter that slightly emphasises the mids, a tiny bit more detune... a slightly more punchy envelope.

Envelope settings are the same on both and no filtering or effects applied.

But we don't know what the other synth is here and whether it has artefact-free wavetable reproduction.

And there’s a reason I never disclosed what the other synth was as the assignment was to pick out Vital based on sound alone. Some were claiming that Vital has a distinct recognizable sound.

[Fannon]

Seems like my video sparked some discussion..

Allright then.. for the connoisseurs: Which one is Vital?
https://youtu.be/kG_6gibpBW8

Interesting challenge you put out. I'm not (yet) deep into it to really be able to hear which synth is which. My overall impression is that the Synth B has a more stereo separation? I'm not really sure. If this is embedded in a track, I would not be able to tell a difference for sure.

[Igro]

First is Vital. It has a slightly shorter decay, because I know it is harder to adjust. But then, maybe you managed to do the exactly the opposite way. I never heard Serums decay though.
Also, Vital has a slightly pronounced "sizzling" in the unison.

This is the first time I took part in blind a/b tests.

[LFO8]

Synth B was Vital:

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