Aliasing on Arturia Plugins?

[T-CM11]

Ah, so that's how people are going to rationalize the current day use of older synths like Zebra: "Aliasing only matters when it's an emulation of an analog synth."

If somebody else doesn't want to buy a current analog emulation with/because of aliasing, who are you to say that they're wrong?
Shouldn't you be busy making music with your 2004 synthedit minimoog plugin?

[jamcat]

Why would Has Zimmer sell his CS-80?
Did he need the money?

[vurt]

Why would Has Zimmer sell his CS-80?
Did he need the money?

needed the space for an awards shelf.

[bonch]

Ah, so that's how people are going to rationalize the current day use of older synths like Zebra: "Aliasing only matters when it's an emulation of an analog synth."

If somebody else doesn't want to buy a current analog emulation with/because of aliasing, who are you to say that they're wrong?

I don't fault anyone for not buying something. Save your money.

The bigger trap is spending money on a new thing from a new company simply because newer = better. You end up with an elephant graveyard of a plug-in menu, full of old VSTs you don't use anymore because you think they have cooties, and you can't sell them to anyone on KVR because they have the same mindset. Every time a new plug-in comes out, a skeleton gets added to the graveyard. The thing you bought before suddenly sounds "nothing like" (people love that phrase) what it was emulating, and this new thing is true authenticity, at last. It's always more "3D" than the last one. You can finally make music.

Shouldn't you be busy making music with your 2004 synthedit minimoog plugin?

Yikes, wait until people realize Aphex Twin and Squarepusher were using crusty old Generator.

[vurt]

Ah, so that's how people are going to rationalize the current day use of older synths like Zebra: "Aliasing only matters when it's an emulation of an analog synth."

Hans, you fool. You should've read KVR before selling your GX-1 when CS-80 V came out.

so you don't expect a digital synth and an analogue synth to have any differences? even with both being hardware?

as for rationalising, i was explaining.
why do you think arturia have paid coders probably hundreds of thousands of euro over the years to improve them? they could have coded new synths and made more money than on updates.

[bonch]

Ah, so that's how people are going to rationalize the current day use of older synths like Zebra: "Aliasing only matters when it's an emulation of an analog synth."

Hans, you fool. You should've read KVR before selling your GX-1 when CS-80 V came out.

so you don't expect a digital synth and an analogue synth to have any differences? even with both being hardware?

All softsynths are digital synths. People are claiming aliasing in those synths sours their music. I can't help but ask if they've actually blind-tested it to see if anyone actually notices or cares, and I can't help but wonder what they think of all the counterexamples of artists who somehow managed to keep making music very successfully. Years of fearmongering from the Aliasing Police appears to have instilled a great anxiety in people about bogeymen in their music-making tools.

as for rationalising, i was explaining.
why do you think arturia have paid coders probably hundreds of thousands of euro over the years to improve them? they could have coded new synths and made more money than on updates.

Lots of reasons. New features like MPE, new OS support or plug-in formats, updated emulation models, new code that mitigates technical debt. Sales tactics like "newer = better" play a part. The point is that the music world wasn't living in a dark age before Company X announced Plug-In Y that totally got it right this time according to PluginDoctor (until the next plug-in comes along).

Going back to Aphex Twin again, did you know he uses VSTs? He admitted to D16 many years ago that he uses LuSH-101, the 11-year-old emulation I've seen plenty of people on forums insist sounds "nothing like" an SH-101. He also used a Phoscyon preset in an AFX track. For God's sake, he made an entire track using 2007 VSTs called "pretend analog." That hack should have read KVR first before souring his music with crusty 2007 cooties.



The greatest music-making tool in your arsenal is your mind, not your gear.

[vurt]

yes, i know mr james uses vsts

[El°HYM]

Dont we all use vsts from time to time.

[jamcat]

Isn't aliasing only a problem if you're working at 44.1kHz?
Because I've been looking for it in Mini V3, and I'm still not finding any.
Or maybe it's only an issue prior to V3?

[El°HYM]

Aliasing is always present more or less at lower samplerates. Doubling the samplerate from 44.1/48kHz to 88.2/96kHz basically oversamples 2x then (if the plugin can handle this) doubling again results in 4x and so on. Depends on the plugin how high it can go (most plugins from 2007 might not be able to run higher than 44.1). With this the aliasing doesnt completely disappear but is getting more and more inaudible. A good example of this would be Vital and its settings from 1x to 8x OS internally or just running your project at 192kHz, which would result in 4 x OS and should be high enough for most people and often the more elegant way, in case the internal OS isnt programmed that well.

[AdvancedFollower]

Aliasing occurs when part of a sound is above the Nyquist frequency, which is half the sampling rate. There are lots of plugins that don't alias at 44.1 KHz, for example by using a steep low-pass filter at 22 KHz in the internal signal chain, or by internally oversampling. 48 KHz works even better because the low-pass filter doesn't have to be nearly as steep (since there's an additional 2 KHz of frequency headroom).

If a plugin requires 192 KHz to avoid aliasing, it's probably time to start looking at alternative plugins.

[El°HYM]

Aliasing occurs when part of a sound is above the Nyquist frequency, which is half the sampling rate. There are lots of plugins that don't alias at 44.1 KHz, for example by using a steep low-pass filter at 22 KHz in the internal signal chain, or by internally oversampling. 48 KHz works even better because the low-pass filter doesn't have to be nearly as steep (since there's an additional 2 KHz of frequency headroom).

If a plugin requires 192 KHz to avoid aliasing, it's probably time to start looking at alternative plugins.

If a plugin internally runs at 192 kHz it is basically 4 x oversampling, so its probably time to look for another hobby. The rest isnt even worth to comment about. Have fun.

[Dark Fiber]

Aliasing is always present more or less at lower samplerates. Doubling the samplerate from 44.1/48kHz to 88.2/96kHz basically oversamples 2x then (if the plugin can handle this) doubling again results in 4x and so on. Depends on the plugin how high it can go (most plugins from 2007 might not be able to run higher than 44.1). With this the aliasing doesnt completely disappear but is getting more and more inaudible. A good example of this would be Vital and its settings from 1x to 8x OS internally or just running your project at 192kHz, which would result in 4 x OS and should be high enough for most people and often the more elegant way, in case the internal OS isnt programmed that well.

The amount of Intermodulation Distortion (IMD) increases when you increase the project sample rate. So "just running your project at 192kHz" has this as a disadvantage. Therefore it's better to run plugins susceptible to aliasing with internal oversampling.

[Dark Fiber]

Aliasing occurs when part of a sound is above the Nyquist frequency, which is half the sampling rate. There are lots of plugins that don't alias at 44.1 KHz, for example by using a steep low-pass filter at 22 KHz in the internal signal chain, or by internally oversampling. 48 KHz works even better because the low-pass filter doesn't have to be nearly as steep (since there's an additional 2 KHz of frequency headroom).

If a plugin requires 192 KHz to avoid aliasing, it's probably time to start looking at alternative plugins.

48kHz really is the sweet spot indeed

[zerocrossing]

Isn't aliasing only a problem if you're working at 44.1kHz?
Because I've been looking for it in Mini V3, and I'm still not finding any.
Or maybe it's only an issue prior to V3?

It’s been years, but try modulating the filter with osc 3 set to audio rate.