[Now V2.66] Blue Cat's PatchWork Multi FX & Host Updated! (V2.65)

[Blue Cat Audio]

Thanks! most of these are already in the todo list. Regarding left vs right click, it's a tough topic (such changes completely change the workflow, and when you are using touch screens, left click is definitely preferred). Also, all DAWs are not the same: some will require a double click, some a single click... BTW in PatchWork clicking on the window icon at the top right should do the job .

I've been using Patchwork a lot all weekend and STILL just cannot adjust to the current state. Clicking the name should open the plugin window. Not the menu. Clicking the "window icon in the top right" can be the menu. It almost even looks like a menu. Or change the icon to a "hamburger" icon. Please! Pretty please!

Look at the below and imagine please: 1) left-clicking the name opened the GUI (not a menu), 2) right-clicking the name opened the menu (right click for menus is common UI behavior just about everywhere), or 3) left-clicking the new menu icon I mocked up also opened the menu which is touch-screen friendly.


...wouldn't that just feel "right"?

And if the slot is empty, sure, open the menu! Someone probably wants to load a plugin. But if you saw how many times this weekend I clicked the plugin name and opened the menu by accident, then repeated the same error 3 times in quick succession, you'd realize 1) I'm horrible at adjusting to things, 2) this isn't the expected UI behavior. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

In many DAWs you actually have to DOUBLE click to open the GUI. There is no easy solution to transition to a different behavior anyway, so this requires some deep thinking, that's why it has not changed for the past 10 years. Some people are actually used to it!

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

I hear ya regarding making a Ux change to a 10 year old plugin, but even in DAWs where double click opens the GUI, I'd venture to guess that single left click opens a menu in zero of them. That's the unintuitive behavior that trips me up. A single left click never should open a menu. Hence why I think a menu icon makes more sense (touch friendly, standard icon), and moving the left click to toggle the GUI makes sense.

In every other DAW I've used, plugin menus are reserved for right-click. I understand you want to avoid that for touch reasons, hence the icon. Maybe give it a shot on an internal build and see how it feels. I'll stop pestering you now but thanks for humoring me so far.

[MattLeschuck]

Question for BC, have you considered adding an option to disable a loaded plugin? it would be nice to be able to do so, and not just bypass. Similar to how Waves Studiorack does it.

Yes this is in the mysterious todo list too .

That, the ability to reorder macros, and the ability to have a macro control other macros would be incredible ..

With that said, I just want to say thank you for your active communication with the community. That goes a long way (at least for me) as a consumer using a developers product. I really appreciate it.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Question for BC, have you considered adding an option to disable a loaded plugin? it would be nice to be able to do so, and not just bypass. Similar to how Waves Studiorack does it.

Yes this is in the mysterious todo list too .

That, the ability to reorder macros, and the ability to have a macro control other macros would be incredible ..

With the latest version you can already control macros with macros since all PatchWork parameters are exposed to macro controls (MIDI learn is just not possible to avoid feedback loops, you have to manually select the macro control). But that's typically the kind of thing I would avoid in the real life...

[Blue Cat Audio]

I hear ya regarding making a Ux change to a 10 year old plugin, but even in DAWs where double click opens the GUI, I'd venture to guess that single left click opens a menu in zero of them. That's the unintuitive behavior that trips me up. A single left click never should open a menu. Hence why I think a menu icon makes more sense (touch friendly, standard icon), and moving the left click to toggle the GUI makes sense.

In every other DAW I've used, plugin menus are reserved for right-click. I understand you want to avoid that for touch reasons, hence the icon. Maybe give it a shot on an internal build and see how it feels. I'll stop pestering you now but thanks for humoring me so far.

Yep, the right click to get the menu is actually missing indeed. The current behavior will definitely evolve in the future, but I am sill looking for the best target and migration path .

[rasmusklump]

^^I technically agree with you as far as that being the better option, but after using it more regularly recently, I have gotten use to the way it is now no problem. Maybe give it a little more time?!

Question for BC, have you considered adding an option to disable a loaded plugin? it would be nice to be able to do so, and not just bypass. Similar to how Waves Studiorack does it.

I think he's right. I have patchwork for years and still struggle daily over this behavior as I work with other hosts as well.

[MattLeschuck]

Question for BC, have you considered adding an option to disable a loaded plugin? it would be nice to be able to do so, and not just bypass. Similar to how Waves Studiorack does it.

Yes this is in the mysterious todo list too .

That, the ability to reorder macros, and the ability to have a macro control other macros would be incredible ..

With the latest version you can already control macros with macros since all PatchWork parameters are exposed to macro controls (MIDI learn is just not possible to avoid feedback loops, you have to manually select the macro control). But that's typically the kind of thing I would avoid in the real life...

Yep you are correct, my mistake. Its just that you can't use the "learn" function to select a macro as the target. I missed that since thats how i assign things. Thanks for the clarification.

[Blue Cat Audio]

Yep you are correct, my mistake. Its just that you can't use the "learn" function to select a macro as the target. I missed that since thats how i assign things. Thanks for the clarification.

Learn is indeed disabled for macros, or they would always appear in the list anytime you touch a knob of any plug-in.

[MattLeschuck]

Yep you are correct, my mistake. Its just that you can't use the "learn" function to select a macro as the target. I missed that since thats how i assign things. Thanks for the clarification.

Learn is indeed disabled for macros, or they would always appear in the list anytime you touch a knob of any plug-in.

One thing that would be nice to consider is to keep the targets independent from each other and the global macro thats controlling them. So if i want to make a tweak to 1 of the 3 target macros for example, the other 2 targets and the global thats controlling the 3 aren't effected.

Ill use KHS Snap Heap as an example again, this is how they do it and it gives you better control.

[Blue Cat Audio]

One thing that would be nice to consider is to keep the targets independent from each other and the global macro thats controlling them. So if i want to make a tweak to 1 of the 3 target macros for example, the other 2 targets and the global thats controlling the 3 aren't effected.

Keeping the parameters out of sync is not possible and would cause jumps whenever the macro is touched, like with MIDI controllers that are not bi-directional, which we wanted to avoid here.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

The ToneX Pedal got me thinking the other night how killer a Patchwork Pedal (maybe Axiom) would be to host VST plugin chains on a guitar pedal board. I doubt it would even be feasible without solving for some major technical hurdles (operating system and side-loading VST plugins) but damn, if that could be solved for...I'd easily be in for $500. I'm imagining the same basic size/form factor of the ToneX Pedal, where channel strips/presets are saved on the PC and loaded onto the pedal for use later on with the ability to navigate from preset to preset within the pedal itself. It would require some rugged and road-worthy construction so I can stomp on it, spill beer, etc. I'm hoping the prevalence of ARM chips in affordable guitar pedals will help facilitate this for someone some day. Seems like if you can code an Apple Silicon native plugin, you're already coding for ARM processors so it's not a crazy leap to think this could be doable some day. If anything, the OS may be the largest challenge.

But imagine being able to run something like ValhallaSuperMassive on a pedal board, but also have other VST FX on that preset too. It could have MIDI program change messages for preset programing...all from your pedalboard. A boy can dream can't he?

[Blue Cat Audio]

Many have already tried doing hardware that can use VST plug-ins, and so far none of them have been really successful or lasted very long. The problem is that the cost of dedicated hardware if larger than the cost of machines such as PCs or Macs that are built by much larger batches. Also, by doing so, you loose what makes plug-ins attractive compared to hardware: the user interface, and compatibility.

If you really want to hide the Mac or PC under the pedalboard or in a rack, you can use a laptop in clamshell mode, with a MIDI controller to interact with it.

[Funkybot's Evil Twin]

Many have already tried doing hardware that can use VST plug-ins, and so far none of them have been really successful or lasted very long. The problem is that the cost of dedicated hardware if larger than the cost of machines such as PCs or Macs that are built by much larger batches. Also, by doing so, you loose what makes plug-ins attractive compared to hardware: the user interface, and compatibility.

If you really want to hide the Mac or PC under the pedalboard or in a rack, you can use a laptop in clamshell mode, with a MIDI controller to interact with it.

I think someone will crack this nut in the next few years now that ARM chips are 1) fast, 2) cool, 3) affordable, 4) durable, 5) low power, 6) ubiquitous (between cellphones to Apple silicon to guitar pedals). I think that will end up being the difference maker compared to prior solutions. You're seeing Universal Audio basically porting their plugins to ARM solutions via their UAFX pedals, IK doing that with TONEX, Strymon going the other way, Eventide being right in the middle, etc. But those are pretty much dedicated solutions, probably running on a barebones OS and they don't have to worry about third-party compatibility which is the big hurdle.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if IK Multimedia put out a T-Racks Channel Strip pedal for example with compression, eq, delays, reverb, and modulation in a TONEX/X-Gear form factor with PC control. If someone could figure out third-party hosting, something like Patchwork in a $500 pedal would be a game changer.

May still be a pipe dream, but I think the hardware/cost is no longer the issue. Whereas with previous solutions, hardware/form factor/cost were definitely major factors as to why those products failed. Now I see the challenges as just really being: compatibility/hosting/OS.

EDIT: for instance, there's no technological reason a hardware Axiom guitar pedal, with no third-party plugin hosting, couldn't exist right? Take a similar form factor and processor to the TONEX pedal, but instead of running IK software, it's basically running Axiom with Blue-Cat plugins. If that could exist, then how much more difficult would it be to add in third party hosting support? Probably a lot, but that seems like a software issue. Not hardware, not cost, not power or heat.

[DC66STEPS]

That's great!

[Vikingbear]

What a great little plugin! I recently got Pianoteq- fantastic!! being able to call up pianoteq, put some space echo and reverb on it- maybe a subtle univibe.... save it, and then just enjoy the playing without opening a DAW? perfect!!
then, if I write something worth recording... open up Logic, call up patchwork....boom! theres my same sound just were I want it. cheers!