Bitwig 5 is up

[billcarroll]

"What are some issues you're having with the new browser? It would be interesting to look at some specifics to understand how you're affected."

I think everything has been mentioned in this thread already, but...
1. Virtually everything requires more clicks now.
2. The new browser icons at the top of the side browser are harder to "read".
3. The user snapshot icons on the pop-up browser contain no text, so we're just supposed to memorize what each one represents when browsing.
4. User collections are now displayed with bulky icons and I have to use a scroll bar to view them all (more clicks) whereas in the old list view, I could see everything at a glance in a way that was much more efficient of screen space.

"Have you had a chance to read through the long section about the new browser in the release notes? A lot of functionality is described there with tips on how to use the new system."

Yes I have, and none of the new features really do anything for me. It seems like the browser was built around situations that would be exceptions for most people, while the way most people use the browser on a daily basis is now less convenient. And all due respect, but, a browser shouldn't require reading up on for basic functions. A well designed browser should be self-explanatory and able to be used without thinking twice.

I'm honestly not even sure why the browser was revamped. While there were surely some improvements that could've been made to the old one, I never heard anyone complain about the old one or demand it add new features. The browser is a really important part of the experience of using a DAW and this new version has made it less efficient and quick, in my opinion. I know others may disagree, which is why I thought having both options would be nice.

I can understand what you're saying about the small icons in the side browser. I'm on a 4k screen and they aren't what I would call big. You do get text if you hover over the icons with your mouse.

Did you see you can add items to the bowser bar, like a collection by right clicking and selecting add to quick sources? Not sure how many collections you have, but this helped me get to my top collections in 1 click.

I could also see how a list view for All Sources pop up menu would be helpful.

I hope you'll send your feedback to Bitwig -> beta@bitwig.com

[SamDi]

Have you had a chance to read through the long section about the new browser in the release notes? A lot of functionality is described there with tips on how to use the new system.

a browser isn't something you should have to read the manual for imo, it should just be an easy, intuitive way to find everything

I think the v4 is generally intuitive, but there are a few things where the manual helps, like how to favourite and create custom collections. I think this was mainly ok, though BW does have a ton of powerful things it can do IF you know the combination of tools, or tricks to get there.

It seemed from the website that BW are putting a bit of emphasis on sounds and packages, so having these more easily accessible is probably important for people starting out. Definitely they are a bit behind in the included content comparisons, so I can understand why they need to do this.

I just hope that it doesn't impact the workflow of people who just don't really need that content.

This is my big fear, that BW tries to start to build their DAW and browser around their own content and in the next step BW gets an big advertising platform for content, which they create and try to sell beside their DAW subscription.

But a DAW shouldn‘t treat your own content and plugins as a side-kick and place the own content prominently in the center of the browser, it should be the other way around.

My smart collections should be the big icons on the top and this BW stuff should be the small ones on the side!!!

[PieBerger]

This is my big fear, that BW tries to start to build their DAW and browser around their own content and in the next step BW gets an big advertising platform for content, which they create and try to sell beside their DAW subscription.

But a DAW shouldn‘t treat your own content and plugins as a side-kick and place the own content prominently in the center of the browser, it should be the other way around.

My smart collections should be the big icons on the top and this BW stuff should be the small ones on the side!!!

Maybe I'm just being naive but I think it's more likely that the new browser, in the first beta release of the next development cycle, is optimised to work better with factory content, since it is included as standard, for all users. If BW content is still being prioritised over user content in the browser, well after the stable release, then maybe your concerns will be worthy of a bit more consideration. Not trying to be rude here, just pragamatic, we're 3 days into the beta remember

[billcarroll]

Have you had a chance to read through the long section about the new browser in the release notes? A lot of functionality is described there with tips on how to use the new system.

a browser isn't something you should have to read the manual for imo, it should just be an easy, intuitive way to find everything

I think the v4 is generally intuitive, but there are a few things where the manual helps, like how to favourite and create custom collections. I think this was mainly ok, though BW does have a ton of powerful things it can do IF you know the combination of tools, or tricks to get there.

It seemed from the website that BW are putting a bit of emphasis on sounds and packages, so having these more easily accessible is probably important for people starting out. Definitely they are a bit behind in the included content comparisons, so I can understand why they need to do this.

I just hope that it doesn't impact the workflow of people who just don't really need that content.

This is my big fear, that BW tries to start to build their DAW and browser around their own content and in the next step BW gets an big advertising platform for content, which they create and try to sell beside their DAW subscription.

But a DAW shouldn‘t treat your own content and plugins as a side-kick and place the own content prominently in the center of the browser, it should be the other way around.

My smart collections should be the big icons on the top and this BW stuff should be the small ones on the side!!!

The new browser let's you select "Remember Selected Filters ..." for whatever context you are in, and you can choose your own content or collections for that default.

You can also drag the icons on the side into any order you want, and add your own content as an icon by adding it as a Quick Source.

[PieBerger]

This is my big fear, that BW tries to start to build their DAW and browser around their own content and in the next step BW gets an big advertising platform for content, which they create and try to sell beside their DAW subscription.

But a DAW shouldn‘t treat your own content and plugins as a side-kick and place the own content prominently in the center of the browser, it should be the other way around.

My smart collections should be the big icons on the top and this BW stuff should be the small ones on the side!!!

Maybe I'm just being naive but I think it's more likely that the new browser, in the first beta release of the next development cycle, is optimised to work better with factory content, since it is included as standard, for all users and is thus a safer bet. If BW content is still being prioritised over user content in the browser, well after the stable release, then maybe your concerns will be worthy of a bit more consideration. Not trying to be rude here, just pragamatic, we're 3 days into the beta remember

[SamDi]

The new browser let's you select "Remember Selected Filters ..." for whatever context you are in, and you can choose your own content or collections for that default.

You can also drag the icons on the side into any order you want, and add your own content as an icon by adding it as a Quick Source.

OK, I need to check this. Problem is: normally I don‘t want filters (like vendor or category to be preserved). But I would like be able to define, which „quick source“ is the standard for each context to be chosen. So e.g. for inserting an instrument, I could define a source without any presets (and BW plugins, which I normally do also not use) and this quick source should then be applied for each insert. But the other filters to thin it out should be reset for each cycle.

Furthermore as already stated often, the smart collections ans own saved filters should be the center of the browser, not these predefined sources mostly containing BW content.

[billcarroll]

The new browser let's you select "Remember Selected Filters ..." for whatever context you are in, and you can choose your own content or collections for that default.

You can also drag the icons on the side into any order you want, and add your own content as an icon by adding it as a Quick Source.

OK, I need to check this. Problem is: normally I don‘t want filters (like vendor or category to be preserved). But I would like be able to define, which „quick source“ is the standard for each context to be chosen. So e.g. for inserting an instrument, I could define a source without any presets (and BW plugins, which I normally do also not use) and this quick source should then be applied for each insert. But the other filters to thin it out should be reset for each cycle.

Furthermore as already stated often, the smart collections ans own saved filters should be the center of the browser, not these predefined sources mostly containing BW content.

You can click the star icon to show only your favorites as well, and save that as the default state.

[SamDi]

You can click the star icon to show only your favorites as well, and save that as the default state.

I‘m gonna check this out in the evening.

[Dipe]

i am the only one ? im not able to load black rooster plugin
i already wrote the support , mabye i doing somethin wrong ?

I also have quite a lot of plugins that worked fine in 4 that no longer work in 5 - not sure what they changed there.
- All the GVST plugins
- Output Movement
- LoudMax
- All Soundtoys
- Diffuse and Modnetic

So something seems off with Plugins...

Same here. Soundtoys vst2 are not working anymore but vst 3 are. May sound unimportant but old projects dont recognise the vst3 as being the same plugin and therfore old projects wont load in the new version

[ThomasHelzle]

i am the only one ? im not able to load black rooster plugin
i already wrote the support , mabye i doing somethin wrong ?

I also have quite a lot of plugins that worked fine in 4 that no longer work in 5 - not sure what they changed there.
- All the GVST plugins
- Output Movement
- LoudMax
- All Soundtoys
- Diffuse and Modnetic

So something seems off with Plugins...

Same here. Soundtoys vst2 are not working anymore but vst 3 are. May sound unimportant but old projects dont recognise the vst3 as being the same plugin and therfore old projects wont load in the new version

I sent my plugin-log to support and they wrote:

"thanks, this should be fixed in one of the next beta updates. Check the changelogs of the next betas to see when it is mentioned and you can test it again."

So send your log to beta@bitwig.com to get it solved (Dashboard -> Plugins -> Show Plugin Errors -> Copy Errors to Clipboard)

Cheers,

Tom

[wvshpr]

5 looks promising.

That the track/project remotes don't have snapshots and morphing is a complete oversight in my view. I have been doing this with IAC buses and MIDI CCs before. Nice to have it native, though. But it really limits the creative potential. Maybe some day.

In general, changing presets via a controller (like it's possible in New Sonic Arts' Freestyle) would be great, going through a browser feels awkward and very computer-y and morphing would add tremendous sound design potential.

Would also be nice to change curves on the fly.

[cel4145]

It's hard to please everyone, everyone wants something different, Bitwig is not a "classic" DAW. Tbh I didn't like it at first after switching from Live, then when I started using modulation more and saw how powerful it was, it literally blew my mind. It is unique. The Bitwig team cannot do miracles. It takes time for developers to create new features (especially for such a small team).

And there it is. You can't quite make the connection.

The reason for the small development team, is because Bitwig overly caters to a small niche audience of sound design oriented DAW users. And that is a shame. Because Bitwig's overall general design is very user friendly. It does a lot of things very well. It just misses some basic features and some basic refinements.

One significant release where they did a lot to update basic DAW features, and Bitwig would soon expand its user base by two or three times. Which would mean enough revenue to expand the development team enough to focus on have the best piano roll, MIDI capabilities, etc. While continuing to develop the software for those mostly interested in the sound design capabilities.

So stop bitching , enjoy experimenting, making music and hope they’ll add other requested features in the near future.

People been hoping for a long time. And people like you keep saying stop complaining. So perhaps you could try not to buy into the tunnel vision which is bitwig development and mislabel good strategies for bitwig development as "bitching."

It's that same tunnel vision which caused Bitwig to initially release the spectral suite as a paid option. Bitwig is looking for additional revenue to fund development. Like you, they're just missing the obvious way to get it that would result in the most number of people being happy with the product in the long term.

[Bieks]

Really excited to try this one out. Really bummed that I can't, because bitwig's audio engine keeps crashing pretty much upon activation.

Tried the library dragging thing mentioned earlier, had no impact on it. It seems to always break on "ControlSurfaceService", which is a very funny name for a service, but also doesn't help me much at all. Anyone have any idea on what to do? For reference, this is the first thing that always pops up in the logs on the audio engine crashing:
[2023-04-13 15:52:02.980 base-server error] Error connecting client to service ControlSurfaceService:
java.net.SocketException: Connection reset
at java.base/sun.nio.ch.NioSocketImpl.implRead(NioSocketImpl.java:313)
at java.base/sun.nio.ch.NioSocketImpl.read(NioSocketImpl.java:340)
at java.base/sun.nio.ch.NioSocketImpl$1.read(NioSocketImpl.java:789)
at java.base/java.net.Socket$SocketInputStream.read(Socket.java:1025)
at java.base/java.net.Socket$SocketInputStream.read(Socket.java:1019)
at com.bitwig.base.io.Nom.read(SourceFile:29)
at com.bitwig.base.io.xcc.cqg(SourceFile:82)
at com.bitwig.base.io.xcc.VoV(SourceFile:58)
at Wjv.ngP(SourceFile:40)
at Wjv.VoV(SourceFile:21)
at xmG.jDy(SourceFile:111)
at G2s.run(SourceFile:322)

I have sent a crash report on it. I just want to draw the funny shapes to make the worst music you've ever heard, please help ya boy out ;[

[perpetual3]

I’m really amazed at all the mind readers and prophets at kvr, y’all should focus your talents on the stock market or swim thing then you could buy the company and make it exactly the daw that you want.

[billcarroll]

It's hard to please everyone, everyone wants something different, Bitwig is not a "classic" DAW. Tbh I didn't like it at first after switching from Live, then when I started using modulation more and saw how powerful it was, it literally blew my mind. It is unique. The Bitwig team cannot do miracles. It takes time for developers to create new features (especially for such a small team).

And there it is. You can't quite make the connection.

The reason for the small development team, is because Bitwig overly caters to a small niche audience of sound design oriented DAW users. And that is a shame. Because Bitwig's overall general design is very user friendly. It does a lot of things very well. It just misses some basic features and some basic refinements.

One significant release where they did a lot to update basic DAW features, and Bitwig would soon expand its user base by two or three times. Which would mean enough revenue to expand the development team enough to focus on have the best piano roll, MIDI capabilities, etc. While continuing to develop the software for those mostly interested in the sound design capabilities.

So stop bitching , enjoy experimenting, making music and hope they’ll add other requested features in the near future.

People been hoping for a long time. And people like you keep saying stop complaining. So perhaps you could try not to buy into the tunnel vision which is bitwig development and mislabel good strategies for bitwig development as "bitching."

It's that same tunnel vision which caused Bitwig to initially release the spectral suite as a paid option. Bitwig is looking for additional revenue to fund development. Like you, they're just missing the obvious way to get it that would result in the most number of people being happy with the product in the long term.

Well to be fair, Bitwig is missing some basic features and some basic refinements from your perspective. Your perspective is completely valid, and the are probably others who share this view.

To effect change and ask for the features you want is a great way to go. Just email support@bitwig.com with your feedback. They read every email and they do listen to users, especially when presented with well thought out feedback.