Bitwig 5 is up

[billcarroll]

A lot of this discussion makes me think of the answer Urs gave in another thread when talking about user feedback.

I really don't mind if people who can't be happy with our offerings go for something else.

It's a bit of a running gag in our circle that if all of us implemented every feature request voiced on KVR, we'd all end up with the same synth that nobody wants.

viewtopic.php?p=8646693#p8646693

That's not to say people's feedback is not valid. It certainly is. However it really points to the bigger issue developers face with their product and the vision they have for the product that makes it special in the first place.

[pdxindy]

Well to be fair, Bitwig is missing some basic features and some basic refinements from your perspective. Your perspective is completely valid, and the are probably others who share this view.

Define valid?

Bitwig has their own vision and development path and update after update they demonstrate it. V5 is yet another quintessential Bitwig update. And yet some people doggedly hold on to the magical fantasy that Bitwig will suddenly become a different company, with a different vision and do what they want if they just keep hoping. Seems like a remote hope to me... pun intended.

[machinesworking]

i am the only one ? im not able to load black rooster plugin
i already wrote the support , mabye i doing somethin wrong ?

I also have quite a lot of plugins that worked fine in 4 that no longer work in 5 - not sure what they changed there.
- All the GVST plugins
- Output Movement
- LoudMax
- All Soundtoys
- Diffuse and Modnetic

So something seems off with Plugins...

Same here. Soundtoys vst2 are not working anymore but vst 3 are. May sound unimportant but old projects dont recognise the vst3 as being the same plugin and therfore old projects wont load in the new version

I sent my plugin-log to support and they wrote:

"thanks, this should be fixed in one of the next beta updates. Check the changelogs of the next betas to see when it is mentioned and you can test it again."

So send your log to beta@bitwig.com to get it solved (Dashboard -> Plugins -> Show Plugin Errors -> Copy Errors to Clipboard)

Cheers,

Tom

Thanks for reporting, ran into this exact problem last night with Devil Lock, the VST 2 version is failing evaluation and 3 is not replacing it.

[billcarroll]

Well to be fair, Bitwig is missing some basic features and some basic refinements from your perspective. Your perspective is completely valid, and the are probably others who share this view.

Define valid?

Bitwig has their own vision and development path and update after update they demonstrate it. V5 is yet another quintessential Bitwig update. And yet some people doggedly hold on to the magical fantasy that Bitwig will suddenly become a different company, with a different vision and do what they want if they just keep hoping. Seems like a remote hope to me... pun intended.

Valid in the sense that people have their opinions. Personal preferences are valid, as are the people themselves.

I think I agree with you in general.

[machinesworking]

Well to be fair, Bitwig is missing some basic features and some basic refinements from your perspective. Your perspective is completely valid, and the are probably others who share this view.

Define valid?

Bitwig has their own vision and development path and update after update they demonstrate it. V5 is yet another quintessential Bitwig update. And yet some people doggedly hold on to the magical fantasy that Bitwig will suddenly become a different company, with a different vision and do what they want if they just keep hoping. Seems like a remote hope to me... pun intended.

Yep, one of the reasons I started using Bitwig is because I gave up on the idea that my vision of what Live could be was going to materialize out of pure willpower, or feature suggestions, and conversations on their forum. Most of the "modern" DAWs follow an Apple/Steve Jobs vision of development, they design the product they personally want, which they hope will appeal to their audience. They aren't trying to tack on every feature ever.

Case in point, they're geared towards modular synths in terms of support, so CV instead of SysEx. SysEx doesn't really exist in Bitwig, so storing patches in a song isn't possible. It's generally not the end of the world, I would love it if it was capable of SysEx dumps but complaining about it endlessly won't do much good, it's a direction Bitwig decided to take, they were right about ReWire so that probably gives them even more impetus to keep on track.

Personally I keep an old school DAW around for old school DAW features, when I want a streamlined workstation I use Bitwig. The new performance features are pretty great as well.

[SamDi]

A lot of this discussion makes me think of the answer Urs gave in another thread when talking about user feedback.

I really don't mind if people who can't be happy with our offerings go for something else.

It's a bit of a running gag in our circle that if all of us implemented every feature request voiced on KVR, we'd all end up with the same synth that nobody wants.

viewtopic.php?p=8646693#p8646693

That's not to say people's feedback is not valid. It certainly is. However it really points to the bigger issue developers face with their product and the vision they have for the product that makes it special in the first place.

On the one side Urs is partly right and sometimes I am ashamed, how obtrusive some members here push things in direction to developers, on the other side . Of course they have a vision and first priority is to bring this visions to life.

But on the other side, it should be task of each developer to listen to his customers and be aware, what is needed. On the axis "get completely lost, because just fulfilling customer requests" <-> "go autistically your own way and don't listen to anybody" there is a golden middle way.

In BW some things are near to perfect especially in the workflow, so making changes then, just leads to making things worse. On the other side, in depth many things seem half-cooked. Working with audio items, changing onsets and stretching and that stuff is kind of PITA. I cannot even tell you why, but sometimes it seems that mouse cursor doesn't change accordingly and does the wrong things. Maybe it was because I was on 4.2.5. Now I renewed, so need to check if there are some fixes. Also drawing automation is not nice to work with. These are things customers are complaining since years.

It's not that I would drop BW, I use it really as a main DAW. But slow velocity of development and not improving the DAW, lead me to buy plan last year in June and just now activating it, because I do pay for improvements on the DAW. The n-th esoteric MIDI-FX or "+"-FX is not worth for me keeping the plan continuously active. And I guess many customers are doing so. If they want to earn money, expand their user-base, they need to deliver what the crowd needs, not what a nerd does think out in his home-office chamber.

IMHO if they have at all the wish to grow, they should emphasize more on DJ, performing and sample playing stuff, means make working with samples and audio easier to fish in the ballpark of FL Studio, Ableton, Serato and so on. Small example, I just tried it out: when I am working on a clip cut the audio event under it in peaces, why can't I drag an audio event slice directly into a new lane, that it automatically creates a new track with sampler and the cutted sample in it? Instead I need to drag the audio event to a track, that it gets a clip, then I need to create a track manually with sampler, and then first I can drag the clip into the sampler. In Ableton and FL Studio such things go much faster.

[SLiC]

My take is that plenty of DAWs already have the features that people are asking for in Bitwig…so if you really need midi comping, pitch editing, audio to midi or whatever, choose the DAW that does it now…utterly pointless waiting and ‘hoping’ it will be added to Bitwig in the future…it may happen, but it may be many years away….for better or worse Bitwig is a unique proposition that offers something different, I suspect it will stay that way…we can (maybe) influence the developers with our voted for wish list, but it guarantees nothing, The Ableton wish list had in clip editing in the top 3 or 4 for a decade., never happened!

[machinesworking]

But on the other side, it should be task of each developer to listen to his customers and be aware, what is needed. On the axis "get completely lost, because just fulfilling customer requests" <-> "go autistically your own way and don't listen to anybody" there is a golden middle way.

In BW some things are near to perfect especially in the workflow, so making changes then, just leads to making things worse. On the other side, in depth many things seem half-cooked. Working with audio items, changing onsets and stretching and that stuff is kind of PITA. I cannot even tell you why, but sometimes it seems that mouse cursor doesn't change accordingly and does the wrong things. Maybe it was because I was on 4.2.5. Now I renewed, so need to check if there are some fixes. Also drawing automation is not nice to work with. These are things customers are complaining since years.

It's not that I would drop BW, I use it really as a main DAW. But slow velocity of development and not improving the DAW, lead me to buy plan last year in June and just now activating it, because I do pay for improvements on the DAW. The n-th esoteric MIDI-FX or "+"-FX is not worth for me keeping the plan continuously active. And I guess many customers are doing so. If they want to earn money, expand their user-base, they need to deliver what the crowd needs, not what a nerd does think out in his home-office chamber.

IMHO if they have at all the wish to grow, they should emphasize more on DJ, performing and sample playing stuff, means make working with samples and audio easier to fish in the ballpark of FL Studio, Ableton, Serato and so on. Small example, I just tried it out: when I am working on a clip cut the audio event under it in peaces, why can't I drag an audio event slice directly into a new lane, that it automatically creates a new track with sampler and the cutted sample in it? Instead I need to drag the audio event to a track, that it gets a clip, then I need to create a track manually with sampler, and then first I can drag the clip into the sampler. In Ableton and FL Studio such things go much faster.

Here’s the deal though, some of us came from DP, Logic, Cubase etc. not FL or Serato. What this means is I have a whole different set of features/expectations as to what a DAW should do. Simply put MSEG was a top three request, and Bitwig answered it. The problem is they can’t answer all of them, it’s not Reaper, it’s not going to have scripts you can use to do the thing you want. No DAW even Reaper covers all the bases, so someone will be disappointed, and that person will of course claim they speak for everyone.

[muzicxs]

I don't understand how people can mention that Bitwig doesn't listen. Lack of MSEG was the running joke for over 5 years. Now they implemented MSEG thoroughly in v5 in many different forms, and people still have the audacity to say that they don't listen. Truly unbelievable...

[hihat]

hello !
somebody knows whats this new knob all about !? it does nothing its just there i tried to push but nothing change (midi controllersides) ! does it just shows that you will have a keyboard (controller) aktive . for example if you have 3 controllers it shows 3 knobs !??.
thanks

[billcarroll]

hello !
somebody knows whats this new knob all about !? it does nothing its just there i tried to push but nothing change (midi controllersides) ! does it just shows that you will have a keyboard (controller) aktive . for example if you have 3 controllers it shows 3 knobs !??.
thanks

Correct, the display changes to show details for each controller.

[hihat]

thanks ! i use a maudio 88 pianomidi keyboard so then its not so interesting but for controllers you got should it be good.

[liquidsound]

I don't understand how people can mention that Bitwig doesn't listen. Lack of MSEG for over 5 years. Truly unbelievable...

Fixed…

[pdxindy]

But on the other side, it should be task of each developer to listen to his customers and be aware, what is needed. On the axis "get completely lost, because just fulfilling customer requests" <-> "go autistically your own way and don't listen to anybody" there is a golden middle way.

That 'should' belongs to you. You can say you think it should be this way or that way a thousand times, and that does not make it so. There is no one right way to do it.

As for listening to customers, that is not a black and white thing. There will be user suggestions that a developer is open to and user suggestions they are not open to because they do not fit the developers vision.

I don't think it matters how many times you explain yourself, rationalize why your ideas could benefit the developer, and so on, I don't believe you will ever succeed in diverting the Bitwig devs from their vision.

[muzicxs]

Fixed…

Only the unreasonable want it all and now