Mulab under the hood

[Scrubbing Monkeys]

Please dont stop the App. Building effects and instruments to use in Reaper is a large part of my use of Mulab. Just my vote.

[MuTools]

Don't worry about MuLab App
The only wild question on the table is about external plugin support.

[MuTools]

About external plugin support:

Basically there are 2 main reasons why the wild thought of 'what about making MuLab pure MUX based' passed my mind:

1. The fact that there are too often techncial probs with VST plugins.
   That not only leads to user & dev frustration, it also takes an important amount of dev time and slows down the development of MuLab and its integrated modular sound system itself.
   VST3 does not give a good impression. Its SDK is far more complicated (overly complicated) compared to VST2 and i'm afraid it will cause even more support overhead.
   As a solo dev i really have to be careful with the total amount of work on MuLab.
   If the total amount of work would exceed my capabilities, MuLab would suffer from it, and nobody would win from that.
   On top of that tech aspect, Steinberg has also generated a trust issue with its VST licensing decissions the past years.
   .
2. VST plugins do not allow the same deep integration between all musical parts of MuLab.
   And it is that deep integration that is one of the main goals & strengths of MuLab. Right?
   A uniform system is more easy to use and to develop.

At the other hand i fully acknowledge the benefits of external plugin support and i'm concerned that ceasing it would downgrade MuLab for many users.

So after reflecting more on this topic, i think it's relevant to have a deeper look at CLAP and see if it can function as a good compromise. If CLAP proves to be a good and solid system, then a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper would be a very welcome solution. That way external plugin support would be further guaranteed, also VST3, but the amount of necessary dev time can be limited to VST2 (already exists) and CLAP only. And such development path would also not exclude future options, eg. when there would come a good and gentle VST4.

How does that sound to you?

Curious for your opinions.

Again: No decission taken yet at all.
Day after day i'm learning from your input and updating my view.

Thanks!

[sl23]

I said right from the beginning to go the CLAP route
So I'm perfectly happy with that.

[EvilDragon]

If CLAP proves to be a good and solid system, then a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper would be a very welcome solution.

Jo, the current state of CLAP-as-VST3 wrapper is so solid that it works better than many or any other natively coded VST3s. Basically you get a more compliant VST3 than the one you would get from JUCE or iPlug2 etc., with features natively supported like Note Expression which almost no plugins are using due to either lack of understanding or complexity of implementation or lack of interest..

Just FYI.

[robert_p]

I wouldn't mind having MuLab with CLAP support instead of VST3 as long as VST3 with its GUI could be effectively wrapped. (Currently, xlutop vst3shell doesn't work for me).

[dayvyg]

I'm all for adding CLAP support and skipping VST3. If the CLAP-as-VST3 wrapper works as well as EvilDragon says, and he's a reliable source of information in my experience, then it's a win-win situation.

[MuTools]

If CLAP proves to be a good and solid system, then a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper would be a very welcome solution.

Jo, the current state of CLAP-as-VST3 wrapper is so solid that it works better than many or any other natively coded VST3s. Basically you get a more compliant VST3 than the one you would get from JUCE or iPlug2 etc., with features natively supported like Note Expression which almost no plugins are using due to either lack of understanding or complexity of implementation or lack of interest..
Just FYI.

Thanks for the info.
But what we would need is a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper.
I assume that does not yet exist, does it?
Or am i missing your point here?

[mgiambro]

If CLAP proves to be a good and solid system, then a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper would be a very welcome solution.
Thanks!

[Cochrane]

Sorry, but I don't get the point:
- has MuLab "as plugin" to become a CLAP plugin? If yes, very few DAWs (almost none? Maybe only Bitwig and Reaper and none of the major ones) will support it. Moreover, in less than six months one of the most important DAW and ecosystem (Stein....) has announced abandoning VST2 hosting, so MuLab "as Plugin" will not be available anymore for users of that ecosystem.
Maybe a CLAP-to-VST3 adapter will make the magic but does it exist? And, if yes, how reliable is it?

- has MuLab "as host" (and "sub-host in DAW", the most interesting point for me) to support only CLAP? how many CLAP plugins will be available now and in future which won't be also in VST2/3 format? Does VST3 SDK mandate removing existing VST2 support in hosts? (I hope not and it seems so).

In this context I don't understand how CLAP implementation will solve MuLab "as plugin" question, providing the fact that it seems all industry has moved (or is moving...) to VST3: I suggest Jo to take time evaluating the big impact that MuLab "as plugin" has in most DAWs workflow and how future VST3 support will be fundamental for this userbase.

Just my 2 cents.

[EvilDragon]

CLAP-to-VST3 wrapper does exist and it is very reliable. It's already been used in the wild i.e. by u-he and some other vendors.

CLAP is solving a lot of problems. First and foremost, VST3 is as Jo said extremely over-engineered and difficult to implement. CLAP is the opposite of that. Very simple and straightforward, like VST2 was. And the wrapper to VST3 works perfectly fine and as I mentioned above is more compliant to VST3 feature set than most any other natively written VST3 plugin out there.

Jo would be smart to use it as a backbone of his operations towards the future.

[Michael L]

CLAP-to-VST3 wrapper does exist and it is very reliable.

But what we would need is a VST3-as-CLAP wrapper.
I assume that does not yet exist, does it?

i.e. to wrap VST3 plugins for a CLAP host

[EvilDragon]

I actually don't know if that one is in the works. Eventually it will happen for sure, but I think the current priority is CLAP-as-AU.

[Michael L]

i.e. to wrap VST3 plugins for a CLAP host

I actually don't know if that one is in the works

Thank you.
Who do you think is likely to know?

[sl23]

The only thing I absolutely hate about CLAP and VST3 is that they use system directories! Are they able to be moved elsewhere?