If you had to stick to one DAW, which one would it be?

[dellboy]

That would only follow if every part in the piece was unplayable by human hands, which is patently nonsense. There might be a part or a passage that only the computer can play but that wouldn't stop one, or several, keyboard players and a drummer from playing everything else. You need to use a bit more imagination.

Yes, that's fine, Jean Michelle Jarre would have many other musicians on stage at his live shows. And of course, he would have been assisted by the help of hardware sequencers and tape machines. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance I was referencing performers like Amon tobin who seem to perform solo. I am not even saying there is anything wrong with that, other than the musician could not perform their show minus the computer.

[neverbeeninariot]

Yeah, AUS but, makes not difference.
Used Steinberg Cubase since Atari STE version 3.1
Migrated to PC 10 years ago and than eye opening experience happened…
Apple Mac, iPad Pro, iPhone Pro, AirPods, etc;…
Never looked back since

Yep, having the same(ish) tools available across different platforms (mobile, etc), does make for a better value proposition, for sure.

Wasn't v2 the last version on the STE? I used it back in the day, and it was (IMO) head and shoulders above almost every other midi sequencer at the time. It had some really nifty features, like the ability to have independent loop points inside the midi editor - polymeters were so easy to do, I was gutted when they didn't port that over to SX : (

[vurt]

That would only follow if every part in the piece was unplayable by human hands, which is patently nonsense. There might be a part or a passage that only the computer can play but that wouldn't stop one, or several, keyboard players and a drummer from playing everything else. You need to use a bit more imagination.

Yes, that's fine, Jean Michelle Jarre would have many other musicians on stage at his live shows. And of course, he would have been assisted by the help of hardware sequencers and tape machines. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance I was referencing performers like Amon tobin who seem to perform solo. I am not even saying there is anything wrong with that, other than the musician could not perform their show minus the computer.

i dont know about tobin in particular...

but toby marks, aka "banco de gaia", first time i saw him play, he was doing a straight techno show, samplers and a keyboard. very good imo (the maya album has some classic stuff on it)
saw him do a few show like this, all good!
including a few where he pretty much djed white labels of the tracks from "last train to lhasa" also a damn fine album!!
then shortly after the album was released (yay!!!) i saw him at a festival, where on stage he used a guitar? wtf?? played bongos and various other percussion, while some buddhist musicians played various drone machines (long horns, shrutis...) and it was more of a live show, but the same tracks, and equally as recognisable as the electronic pieces.

moby, another one ive seen do shows with nothing more than an electribe and a 303, but also with a full rock band.

not all electronic musicians, are folk who figured theyd have some fun now computers are here, many did years in bands before even synths were affordable for the masses.

[vurt]

you might like william orbit
he does both electronic and orchestral
ive seen a couple of times full orchestra playing his works

not to mention, madonnas best track (frozen) was produced by the lad

I think he produced the whole album, which left me in a terrible quandary: buy it, it's William Orbit. Don't buy it, it's Madonna.

this is true, he did the full album (mirwais who was mentioned earlier did "music" btw) but i only like the one track

I've never heard his orchestral, though, i guess that makes me a horrible person...

dunno if id say horrible, but it makes you a person who still has some experiences to try, better than having done everything, gives you something to look forward to

[EnGee]

Of course Ableton has it. It’s implemented in a different way and actually the project level modulation was there way before Bitwig. Of course you will add the glorified “per voice” etc….

In Bitwig, project level modulators are not per voice... global only. So Live is just as capable (if not more so with M4L) in that regard. The difference is in the workflow, which is far far better in Bitwig.

Better? The overall production workflow is what counts, and there the flip is obvious.
I admire your self marketing department for BWG…

I don't think he is marketing Bitwig or u-he, but he is absolutely a fan of them. Nothing is wrong with that IMO.

Anyway, both Bitwig and Live are excellent DAWs. IMO, both have some advantages over the other. It also depends what we get used to from workflow.

Bitwig is like between Live and a linear DAW. More like Live of course, but the ability to have the mixer under the arrangement, makes it more flexible than Live.

Bitwig runs better on Windows than Live. This is alone made me use it more.

Another advantage for me is that I like the Grid more than Max! Yes, Max is more powerful and there are amazing synths and tools written for it, but it doesn't feel part of the DAW! It feels like an external tool glued to Live. It's a cpu hog as well to the already cpu unfriendly DAW (in Windows).

On Mac, both runs very well (all DAWs run very well!). In Windows, my choice (performance wise) is between Bitwig, S1 and Reaper. S1 is fantastic but they fix a bug then you discover two new ones! Reaper is for nerds Live and Cubase run poorly on Windows, so Bitwig is my best choice here. Stable with good performance , tools and workflow

[liquidsound]

Of course Ableton has it. It’s implemented in a different way and actually the project level modulation was there way before Bitwig. Of course you will add the glorified “per voice” etc….

In Bitwig, project level modulators are not per voice... global only. So Live is just as capable (if not more so with M4L) in that regard. The difference is in the workflow, which is far far better in Bitwig.

Better? The overall production workflow is what counts, and there the flip is obvious.
I admire your self marketing department for BWG…

I don't think he is marketing Bitwig or u-he, but he is absolutely a fan of them. Nothing is wrong with that IMO.

Anyway, both Bitwig and Live are excellent DAWs. IMO, both have some advantages over the other. It also depends what we get used to from workflow.

Bitwig is like between Live and a linear DAW. More like Live of course, but the ability to have the mixer under the arrangement, makes it more flexible than Live.

Bitwig runs better on Windows than Live. This is alone made me use it more.

Another advantage for me is that I like the Grid more than Max! Yes, Max is more powerful and there are amazing synths and tools written for it, but it doesn't feel part of the DAW! It feels like an external tool glued to Live. It's a cpu hog as well to the already cpu unfriendly DAW (in Windows).

On Mac, both runs very well (all DAWs run very well!). In Windows, my choice (performance wise) is between Bitwig, S1 and Reaper. S1 is fantastic but they fix a bug then you discover two new ones! Reaper is for nerds Live and Cubase run poorly on Windows, so Bitwig is my best choice here. Stable with good performance , tools and workflow

No problem in W10 with Ableton for me so far...
I use Reaper for files conversion Really good.
Tried Cubase years ago and I felt I needed an IQ implant!

Recently I discovered Blue Cat PatchWork for the use of Reason Rack (VST3) in MuLab! Which I love, but since Rewire was discontinued, and I used Reason since v2.5, I did a lot more work in Live with the Rack. So I'm quite happy with the Rack in MuLab.

[BONES]

In this instance I was referencing performers like Amon tobin who seem to perform solo. I am not even saying there is anything wrong with that, other than the musician could not perform their show minus the computer.

I managed with hardware for 15 years, it's easily doable and I could happily get up and do a whole NOVAkILL set on my own and I doubt the audience would care that most of the sound is coming out of a laptop. Again, you need to use a bit of imagination. I see very little difference between having a backing band and using a computer to provide your backing. Obviously there is the visual element but there are so many things you can do to cover that.

[EnGee]

No problem in W10 with Ableton for me so far...
I use Reaper for files conversion Really good.
Tried Cubase years ago and I felt I needed an IQ implant!

If I want Ableton Live to function 'ok', then I need to do two things: 1. Choose high performance in power option. 2. Toggle Maximum Performance in one of the options in nVidia Control Panel.

For Cubase, I need also to install only the studio version of nVidia dirver. For Bitwig I don't need to do anything, so my computer and graphic card are quiet

Oh, I have and use Reaper, but not for music making! I use it for testing and activating plugins. I also use it when I want just to spend the time with synths or sound design. Lately I use it every time I quit Bitwig because Bitwig keeps holding the audio interface driver! So, I need Reaper to set it free

Recently I discovered Blue Cat PatchWork for the use of Reason Rack (VST3) in MuLab! Which I love, but since Rewire was discontinued, and I used Reason since v2.5, I did a lot more work in Live with the Rack. So I'm quite happy with the Rack in MuLab.

Why do you need PatchWork? I use Reason Rack all the times in Bitwig, but I don't need a tool for that.
Well, I haven't tried MuLab yet, but i watched some videos about it and read some opinions about it. It seems a very good DAW. If for some reason I stop using Bitwig, I would try MuLab, but for now I want to stay with one DAW for a while and make some music as I'm tired of looking at tens of my projects scattered around all DAWs I have! It is nice to play around but without finished projects, I don't feel satisfied.

[Jac459]

on my neverending quest for interesting samples, i found...

Love it

[machinesworking]

I don't think he is marketing Bitwig or u-he, but he is absolutely a fan of them. Nothing is wrong with that IMO.

Anyway, both Bitwig and Live are excellent DAWs. IMO, both have some advantages over the other. It also depends what we get used to from workflow.

Bitwig is like between Live and a linear DAW. More like Live of course, but the ability to have the mixer under the arrangement, makes it more flexible than Live.

I go back and forth with this, yes, Bitwig has an advantage flexible interface wise to Live, but there are things that are just more robust in Live, the stretch algorithms for instance. In the end they're both extremely powerful.

Bitwig runs better on Windows than Live. This is alone made me use it more.

Another advantage for me is that I like the Grid more than Max! Yes, Max is more powerful and there are amazing synths and tools written for it, but it doesn't feel part of the DAW! It feels like an external tool glued to Live. It's a cpu hog as well to the already cpu unfriendly DAW (in Windows).

On Mac, both runs very well (all DAWs run very well!). In Windows, my choice (performance wise) is between Bitwig, S1 and Reaper. S1 is fantastic but they fix a bug then you discover two new ones! Reaper is for nerds Live and Cubase run poorly on Windows, so Bitwig is my best choice here. Stable with good performance , tools and workflow

I'm curious about this, I've always been under the impression that Cubase for the most part ran better under Windows? Live is more of a CPU pig than Bitwig, it didn't used to be the case but as of three years ago or so when I started using Bitwig I noticed the CPU improvements were significant. In other words, Live sucks CPU on Mac OS as well. Bitwig works great on Mac OS but I'm butthurt that they didn't add even the basics of touch screen support on the Mac side. I've got a Raven and it works fantastic with most modern touch friendly plug ins, but mediocre with Bitwig.

[Jac459]

I’ve been working with Bitwig probably 2 years, IIRC.

You can compare as long as you feel necessary but if we need to go further you have no idea what a M4L device can do “IF” you need such a power.
There are devices, among the free ones, that are incredibly useful and some are just very specialized and useless to the majority.

Again, it’s all based on your needs to “make music” in the way that fits you best.

You should be very grateful (and you are, right?) that you have found a modulation heaven in Bitwig. It’s a neat DAW for the few passionate users that is fulfilling their vision of endless options. Great!

But I need a better DAW thank you.

Well I used ableton for 6 months. Forcing me to learn it and like it. Didn't manage. I already use Excel in my day job, thanks.

I guess indeed it is a better DAW for accountant lol.

Anyway, as said before the discussion is irrelevant. There is no best daw. There is a best daw for usage/ genre/ workflow.
Everybody should do its own homework and decide.

At least now I know you like the “brown version” of excel.
Actually we got more colors available in the original

A good excel is a dead excel my friend

Are you ok my friend?
Looks like you need a brake from the real excel…
I’ve been there but I wrote the database for my company because I wanted it exactly my way and I could adapt it as I grew the company but… it’s a hell of a job. I will eventually hire someone and they will use a different platform.

But yeah, it sound like excel is getting the best of you and consequently stay away from Ableton especially after 6 months of repulsion to the sheet!

Ha ha, then you are an accountant or an IT? I did believe IT were the most boring in the world (I am IT) but then I discovered accountants ....

And then you have accountant and IT at the same time. I have one in my team. If I ask him if the light is on, he will explain me how the switch works. By the time he eventually answer I won't be listening anymore....

So yes, I am terrorised by excel....

[Jac459]

Yes, that's fine, Jean Michelle Jarre would have many other musicians on stage at his live shows. And of course, he would have been assisted by the help of hardware sequencers and tape machines. Nothing wrong with that. In this instance I was referencing performers like Amon tobin who seem to perform solo. I am not even saying there is anything wrong with that, other than the musician could not perform their show minus the computer.

Amon Tobin is so talented.....

[Jac459]

Yes, there is a few iconic synths riff but they were buried in non electronic arrangement (singers, sometimes drummer, guitarists, and so on).#
So what? We don't make "electronic" music, it's not in any way a prerequisite for working ITB. You need to broaden your horizons.

Not at all the point I was making dude. As often, you try to answer multiple people in one shot but you lose track of the discussion. Read again.

[EnGee]

I'm curious about this, I've always been under the impression that Cubase for the most part ran better under Windows? Live is more of a CPU pig than Bitwig, it didn't used to be the case but as of three years ago or so when I started using Bitwig I noticed the CPU improvements were significant. In other words, Live sucks CPU on Mac OS as well. Bitwig works great on Mac OS but I'm butthurt that they didn't add even the basics of touch screen support on the Mac side. I've got a Raven and it works fantastic with most modern touch friendly plug ins, but mediocre with Bitwig.

Cubase was better on Windows ages ago! The last good version I run was version 6, but I skipped version 7 and only used Elements edition for version 8 and 9. However, full versions of 10, 11 and 12 later, those are problematic on my three PCs, oldest with i5 and then Ryzen 1600, and now Ryzen 5800x. Windows 8, 10 and 11.

I think it has been two years with M1 (first a Macbook Air that I gave to my sis, and now I have Mini Mac). Cubase runs very smooth. All DAWs runs better on My MiniMac than my Windows 11 PC, but my Windows PC runs on a 'relaxed' mode! It means no turbo for my processor and with balanced performance option.

I run both systems almost equally, but i must choose only one in the end for music making. Mostly, this will be my Mini Mac because it is completely silent with great performance. However, I don't know exactly what will happen to this platform in the future! If Apple prices them way too high, I might return to my PC, so I don't want to depend only on one system. I even tried for some time Bitwig on Linux (Ubuntu) and it runs fantastically well! So this is another option for me to make music with

[liquidsound]

No problem in W10 with Ableton for me so far...
I use Reaper for files conversion Really good.
Tried Cubase years ago and I felt I needed an IQ implant!

If I want Ableton Live to function 'ok', then I need to do two things: 1. Choose high performance in power option. 2. Toggle Maximum Performance in one of the options in nVidia Control Panel.

For Cubase, I need also to install only the studio version of nVidia dirver. For Bitwig I don't need to do anything, so my computer and graphic card are quiet

Oh, I have and use Reaper, but not for music making! I use it for testing and activating plugins. I also use it when I want just to spend the time with synths or sound design. Lately I use it every time I quit Bitwig because Bitwig keeps holding the audio interface driver! So, I need Reaper to set it free

Recently I discovered Blue Cat PatchWork for the use of Reason Rack (VST3) in MuLab! Which I love, but since Rewire was discontinued, and I used Reason since v2.5, I did a lot more work in Live with the Rack. So I'm quite happy with the Rack in MuLab.

Why do you need PatchWork? I use Reason Rack all the times in Bitwig, but I don't need a tool for that.
Well, I haven't tried MuLab yet, but i watched some videos about it and read some opinions about it. It seems a very good DAW. If for some reason I stop using Bitwig, I would try MuLab, but for now I want to stay with one DAW for a while and make some music as I'm tired of looking at tens of my projects scattered around all DAWs I have! It is nice to play around but without finished projects, I don't feel satisfied.

PatchWork is for MuLab because Reason Rack is VST3.
MuLab is incredible (deeply modular) and the Matrix (session view) is very powerful and I’m just scratching the surface of it after coming back to use it full force (I spent a lot of time with BWS the past few years and I put several tools on the back burner).
The Clips in the session are independent from the arranger and IIRC you can even mix different tempo at the same time ( I will need to refresh on that one but I’m not with my laptop.) So that problem of recording over the arranger in Bitwig and Ableton it’s not present in MuLab.