Joy of Joy - List of Lists - What are Your Favourites?

[Michael L]

A list of songs that are one long solo:

[PatchAdamz]

Some great solos:

Steely Dan | “Kid Charlemagne”
GUITARIST: Larry Carlton (1976)

The Beatles | “While My Guitar Gently Weeps”
GUITARIST: Eric Clapton

Dire Straits | “Sultans Of Swing”
GUITARIST: Mark Knopfler

The Jimi Hendrix Experience | “All Along The Watchtower”
GUITARIST: Jimi Hendrix

Pink Floyd | “Comfortably Numb”
GUITARIST: David Gilmour

Miles Davis
Stella By Starlight

John Coltrane
Moment's Notice

Charlie Parker
All the Things You Are

And of course:

[kritikon]

List of Northland beaches.
Can be subgrouped into those I've visited and those I've yet to visit. My aim is to go to every beach. Unfortunately some aren't easily accessible because of NZ land ownership laws though. I think I've pretty well been to every beach in lower Northland, some yet to go in the mid-North but a shitload to do in the far North (went to Rarawa beach last week - stunning blinding white silica sand, almost empty apart from the Mexican tourist who though it a great idea to drive her rented van onto the beach (she didn't get very far before getting stuck).

[BONES]

I used to have a goal of going to every McDonalds in Sydney but by the mid-90s it was obvious that I would never achieve that particular goal, as they became far too ubiquitous. Honestly, if you are from the US or UK, you have no idea what Maccas is like here. In some areas you can pretty much walk from one to the next, there are probably almost as many as there are bus stops.
BTW, it's funny that someone thought that photo was worth watermarking.

I prefer the DJ method where songs played at a given time is determined by the mood of the audience.

I think that's a fundamental difference between going to see a band and going to a nightclub. A DJ is absolutely there to cater to a crowd, whereas an audience goes to see a band and should understand what to expect. As John Watts from Fischer Z once said, his only obligation to the punters is to be good. You are never going to please everyone, there's always that one idiot yelling at you to play something horrible that you don't want to play and nobody else wants to hear.

Get a nice sized catalog of songs, learn them all, then be ready to go "On the Fly" on stage.

Why? I don't see the advantage. You don't want the whole night to be going from a slow song to a fast song, back to a slow one, then another fast one. Surely you want to build some atmosphere or gradually ratchet up the energy/tension and take the audience along with you?

We've never played the same set twice. That would be boring

Totally understand. But that would mean not playing the same set twice would be fun. How is fun relevant to anything?

Fun is not the opposite of boring. Playing different sets on different nights makes things more interesting, both for us and for the punters. There is nothing more disappointing than going to see a touring band two nights in a row and hearing exactly the same songs, in exactly the same order, with exactly the same banter between songs. Sadly, that's pretty much the norm these days. Robert Smith always makes The Cure learn more than 100 songs for a tour, so that if they play the same city twice, they can play a completely different set each night. I think that might possibly be taking things a bit too far, but it's cool that he thinks about providing value for the punters who support him.

a good set ebbs and flows, just as a good album does

I could care less about albums ebbing and flowing. Give me songs. If an album's got 10 songs you better give me a solid 8 songs at the least.

Songs are a dime a dozen. Anyone can make a good song, making a good, consistent album is a considerably greater challenge.

Noel Gallagher said it best - No fillers.

Yet look at the rip-ff shite they played, night after night.

No B-sides that cannot be A -sides.

I rarely find the singles to be the best songs on an album and I'd never produce a song thinking of it in that way. Our singles are cynically chosen by our label as those with the most commercial potential, not which is best. It's a very different set of criteria. And, of course there are songs on every one of our albums that we'd never even consider playing live. The aims of a live set are very different to what we want for an album.

It's the one band from the 90s lot who managed to pack in arenas in the States and that was with solid songs standing on their own

I think you'll find that everything Oasis did was standing on the shoulders of Lennon and McCartney. The only more derivative sounding band I've heard was Mastertune, who used samples from Front 242 to make their own songs. They were way better than Oasis, though, because they took themselves a lot less seriously.

your obsession with song lists for live shows is one.

No, that's merely a manifestation of my obsession with making lists. It's a list I can really get stuck into. I'm sure we could write it out in the green room after soundcheck and it would almost certainly be the same list.

Akin to a self indulgent finger tappin G soloist going for 10 minutes, you could care less if the crowd gets bored or shows no interest in your overly crafted two hour (or however long) live set.

We keep our sets short. I get bored with even my favourite artists after more than about an hour so we generally aim to do 14 or 15 songs, which will run to a bit over an hour. If, after 25 years, people don't know what to expect, I don't see that as our problem.

You see in others what you see in yourself. Point the finger at someone and you got three pointed back at you. Judging others by....ok I'll shut up (yes you can quote that and say "please do").

Everybody gets judged nine ways to Sunday every day. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. I think any performer needs a certain level of arrogance. It's a desirable trait - you can't get up in front 1,000, or even 50, people and be entertaining without it - but pretentiousness is a different thing.

For the record (33 1/3), Frank didn't say that to impress anyone or seem significant. He mentioned it because he was asked a question on playing live. He mentioned it's more exciting playing something different every night hence the example of different solos every show.

More exciting for him, maybe, just pretentious wankery to me. I had kind of hoped he was being self-deprecating, suggesting he couldn't remember from night to night what he'd done previously, but that doesn't sound like what it was. We don't do solos because I'm not that good a musician (and I have no desire to become any better) and my bandmate, whilst far more talented than I am, doesn't seem to want to have to practice more, either. So we are happy to let my laptop shoulder most of the work.

Enemies list.

Perhaps strangely, I never think about people so I'd never think to make a list like that. I'm not even sure I have enemies, as such, but I could make a list of people I hate, I suppose. The trouble with that, though, is that it would be giving them too much power over me.

[harryupbabble]

speed seems to make things more fun

i'm thinking of making
a list of my music collection according to tempo
fast at top, slow at bottom

that might be a joy joy list

[? ? ?]

A DJ is absolutely there to cater to a crowd, whereas an audience goes to see a band and should understand what to expect

Tommy Shaw mentioned STYX playing a show to support the Kilroy Was Here album and geting booed off stage because it was more of a stage act than a rock n roll show.
Point being, bands cater to a crowd as well (or should).
Likewise, I understand what to expect If I were to go to a DnB or Hardcore Techno club/promoted event. If the DJ starts spinning Trance, I'm going to defecate on that DJs turntables.

there's always that one idiot yelling at you to play something horrible that you don't want to play and nobody else wants to hear

Well I never said do an "all request hour". It's a matter of getting a feel of the crowd and accomodating (like a DJ) to keep things moving.

Why?

The reason is because *I* like it that way. It makes things exciting for *me* when I have no idea what in f**k I'm going to play each night. Otherwise it's just another job getting up there and playing a set of songs and even worse the same set night after night.

You don't want the whole night to be going from a slow song to a fast song, back to a slow one, the another fast one.

You hit the nail right on the head. You are damn 100% correct I don't want slow fast slow fast.
I want it ALL fast! I don't do slow songs live and I would never join a band that does slow anything on stage.
Mind you I do write a nice mellow song now and then but that shit stays on the album and will never see the light of day live.
For me playing live is like porn sex - get in, bang, get out. Do it in an hour and fifteen minutes - no encores, no solos, and no bullshit.
The crowd can slow down after we leave the stage and go home.

Surely you want to build some atmosphere

Yeah...get in, f**k, get out. Rock N Roll the way it was born to be.

gradually ratchet up the energy/tension and take the audience along with you?

What is this a rock show or some damn roller coaster? I'm f**king with you but seriously, I don't have the patience for that. As I said, get in and get out.
Sometimes it's better just being a supporting act so you can get the job done in 30 minutes.

Fun is not the opposite of boring

Anything exciting, interesting etc. is opposite of being boring and all those experiences are, at some level, fun.

The Cure

Speaking of lists, The Cure is on my list of overrated bands. Robert Smith is like a lonely, whiney mime who never got laid. It's like Edward Scissorhands but he plays guitar (obvs not with scissors of course).
Mind you I do agree that it's cool he changes things up for a multiple night stand. Every band that has the catalog to do so should learn from that.

Anyone can make a good song,

You don't really believe that. If you do then start a new topic here and request KVRIsts to post up a "good" song they'd like to share. See how many you actually like (consider "good").

Now what is the definition of a "good" song? It's a finsihed composition that makes you want to listen to it again. It brings some level of pleasure instead of pain.
Anyone has the *potential* to make a good song, that I can accept.
Just like anyone has the potential to make a million dollars.
Truth is, it's a potential that's very rarely utilized.

Songs are a dime a dozen.

making a good, consistent album is a considerably greater challenge

Well what the hell do you think albums consist of?
You want good songs for a good consistent album and if you say no then you're being foolish.

Yet look at the rip-ff shite they played

I think you'll find that everything Oasis did was standing on the shoulders of Lennon and McCartney.

Let's get something straight right here, right now.
Since the birth of what we know now as Rock N Roll (I think it's Bill Haley that is the first to make RnR widespread), every artist - let me repeat - *every* artist/band, has "ripped off"/stood on the shoulders of black music (Blues) playing this Rock N Roll.
From Rock N Roll, *most* all other genres of modern music was birthed. It was just a matter of changing things up here, changing things up there, some light changes, some harsh changes etc.
Nothing anyone can say is going to convince me otherwise.
Even avant garde artist Captain Beefheart borrowed from black music. He sings like Howlin' Wolf (and actually does a good job at it) and has a strong blues backbone to his experimental madness.
To me the Magic Band is Howlin Wolf's band having one too many drinks and they keep going.
EVery artist/band "borrows".

No, that's merely a manifestation of my obsession with making lists. It's a list I can really get stuck into

Well ok, and soloing is not "wankery" but merely a manifestation of being obsessed with making melodies. Long, predominantly fast most of the times, melodies. It's melodies soloists get stuck into.

We keep our sets short,

Good.

Everybody gets judged

Yes, I know. It's an innate survival trait.

I think any perfomer needs a certain level of arrogance

It's one reason Oasis broke big in the States. Those cats are cocky in a hilarious (good) way. I love watching Liam and Noel interviews.

pretentiousness is a different thing

Charisma is the difference between arrogance and pretentiousness. If you want a red carpet affair and your as charismatic as a door knob well then shut the f**king door.

[BONES]

Tommy Shaw mentioned STYX playing a show to support the Kilroy Was Here album and geting booed off stage because it was more of a stage act than a rock n roll show.
Point being, bands cater to a crowd as well (or should).

Possibly at that level but that's not the experience for 99% of us. And the other thing is should you allow your audience to stifle your creativity? Do you have to wait for them to catch up before you move on to what you want to do next? Or do you challenge them to keep up?

Likewise, I understand what to expect If I were to go to a DnB or Hardcore Techno club/promoted event. If the DJ starts spinning Trance, I'm going to defecate on that DJs turntables.

Really? I doubt I'd notice the difference. But that also goes back to what I just said above - is a band not allowed to do anything different? Once they get started, do they have to keep doing the same thing for the rest of their career, just to keep their audience happy? It would be a pretty sad old world if that's how it worked.

It's a matter of getting a feel of the crowd and accomodating (like a DJ) to keep things moving.

It shouldn't be if you know your craft. I've seen hundreds of bands and all the best ones know how to get their audience to come along for the ride. It's why we put so much effort into crafting a set list.

It makes things exciting for *me* when I have no idea what in f**k I'm going to play each night. Otherwise it's just another job getting up there and playing a set of songs and even worse the same set night after night.

But if you leave it up to your audience, you will end up playing the same songs night after night. We ensure that doesn't happen by having a different set list every night. We rehearse around 20 originals and two or three covers and from that pool create sets of 14 or 15 songs. Over time, which 20 songs they are evolves - new songs come in, old songs drop out and now and then we revivify something from our early albums that we haven't played for ages.

You hit the nail right on the head. You are damn 100% correct I don't want slow fast slow fast. I want it ALL fast! I don't do slow songs live and I would never join a band that does slow anything on stage.

What if that's what your audience wants to hear?

Mind you I do write a nice mellow song now and then but that shit stays on the album and will never see the light of day live.

Slow doesn't have to mean mellow. Our most intense songs are all mid-tempo, around 110bpm and our best stuff is slower than that. We do fast songs as well as anyone in the genre but they're too easy, it almost feels like cheating.

What is this a rock show or some damn roller coaster?

I'd be extremely happy if the audience thought of it as a rollercoaster ride.

Sometimes it's better just being a supporting act so you can get the job done in 30 minutes.

We don't get to play often enough to have that attitude. We always want to play as many songs as we can.

all those experiences are, at some level, fun.

I don't find that. I invariably finish a set with the biggest headache known to mankind that takes a good hour to dissipate. It's as awful as it is inevitable.

The Cure

Speaking of lists, The Cure is on my list of overrated bands. Robert Smith is like a lonely, whiney mime who never got laid. It's like Edward Scissorhands but he plays guitar (obvs not with scissors of course).[/quote]
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Edward Scissorhands was based on Robert Smith, not the other way around. I'm not a huge fan of The Cure but I do like their early stuff, up to Pornography, and I really admire Robert Smith's attitude to his fame and his fans.

Anyone can make a good song,

You don't really believe that.[/quote]
I do. I don't think a lot of people know how to do it but if you show them, I reckon it's in there somewhere.

Now what is the definition of a "good" song? It's a finsihed composition that makes you want to listen to it again.

No, it's a song you still want to listen to 10 years after you first got into it. I reckon for every album like that there are probably a thousand songs.

making a good, consistent album is a considerably greater challenge

Well what the hell do you think albums consist of? You want good songs for a good consistent album and if you say no then you're being foolish.

You might be surprised. We put all kinds of things in there. Chemlab called them "sutures"

Let's get something straight right here, right now.
Since the birth of what we know now as Rock N Roll (I think it's Bill Haley that is the first to make RnR widespread), every artist - let me repeat - *every* artist/band, has "ripped off"/stood on the shoulders of black music (Blues) playing this Rock N Roll.

The thing is, some were a little more subtle about it than Oasis. There is a difference between being influenced by other artists and being a blatant rip-off of them. I hear lots of Beatles influence in all kinds of music but when I hear Oasis, it just screams "rip off!".

[vurt]

oasis are like listening to paint dry. a boring magnolia.

[harryupbabble]

playing normal scrabble is like having my dangler superglued to my leg
... boring and painful and just plain wrong

well, i've never really had my dangler superglued to my leg
why would i do that?

anyways, speaking of lists,
my enemies or mute list here at kvr is empty

but my no-play list at a scrabble site is almost full
the no-play list there has a limit of 100
i have 97 players occupying my no-play list as of right now

yup, i only have room to put 3 more in there
when my no-play list is 100 percent full...
i have to tolerate and play players that i don't want to play

i don't want to play with slow players
scrabble without the speed part is nowhere near as fun to me
it's like unglueing my dangler from my leg, painful, i imagine

[Bunny_boy]

Set lists
Kill List
Listerine
Lizt

[? ? ?]

should you allow your audience to stifle your creativity?

That's not up to you or the audience. That's up to the label or whoever decides to invest in your project.

is a band not allowed to do anything different? Once they get started, do they have to keep doing the same thing for the rest of their career, just to keep their audience happy?

Keep the label/inveators happy. This is why you should never sign with a label for more than 2 or 3 years tops. If you get bored and want to branch out then you have the green light to go elsewhere if the label decides not to invest any further with your new direction.

It shouldn't be if you know your craft.

Like i said, i do it because that's what I like. There's different ways to keep the crowd pumped. You go on and do it the typical way, Ill do it ny way.

But if you leave it up to your audience, you will end up playing the same songs night after night.

Do you really think ill let that happen? Please. The solution is to have a big catalog.

What if that's what your audience wants to hear?

Then I'm at the wrong gig or they're at the wrong show.

Slow doesn't have to mean mellow.

I was talking about *me* and what *I* write. Remember, when I talk, it's all about *me* I don't want to hear jack shit about anyone else. Put full attention on *me* or this conversation is over.

Our most intense songs are all mid-tempo, around 110bpm

Do they come with a pillow?

and our best stuff is slower than that.

Perfect for bathroom breaks. Let me know when you get back up to 165

We do fast songs as well as anyone in the genre but they're too easy, it almost feels like cheating.

Cheating? It must be a nightmare being in a band with you.

I'd be extremely happy if the audience thought of it as a rollercoaster ride.

At 110bpm or slower? I think you better be prepared to be more of a choo choo train.

I don't find that. I invariably finish a set with the biggest headache known to mankind that takes a good hour to dissipate. It's as awful as it is inevitable.

Yea i get the same thing arguing with my girlfriend.
At least you could shut the set down if need be.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Edward Scissorhands was based on Robert Smith, not the other way around.

I'm pretty sure Robert Smith's only girlfriend is a mannequin.

Now what is the definition of a "good" song? It's a finsihed composition that makes you want to listen to it again.

No, it's a song you still want to listen to 10 years after you first got into it.

Yea that's what I said. It's a song you want to listen to AGAIN.

The thing is, some were a little more subtle about it than Oasis.

I really didn't want to open up another can of worms but Oasis is an investment to help push the Beatles catalog to a new generation. That's what they were designed to do. For U2 it was Coldplay, for Madonna it was Lady GaGa. Elton John had his but don't recall the artist name.

[BONES]

That's not up to you or the audience. That's up to the label or whoever decides to invest in your project.

You don't need to have a label to play gigs. Most of the bands I've seen live in my lifetime never released anything, at least not through a label. Often when labels get involved, it creates a rift between a band's live and recorded sound. The recordings try to smooth all the rough edges that are often the band's main attraction.

Like i said, i do it because that's what I like. There's different ways to keep the crowd pumped. You go on and do it the typical way, Ill do it ny way.

Your way is far more typical of my experience.

What if that's what your audience wants to hear?

Then I'm at the wrong gig or they're at the wrong show.

My point, precisely. Bands do what they do and people turn up for that. OTOH, DJs do what the audience wants them to do. It's a completely different mindset from both the performer and the audience. To use The Cure as an example again, I wouldn't bother going to see them today because I know they won't play anything I want to hear, unless the first show sells out and they announce a second show, in which case they will likely play a lot of songs I want to hear. OTOH, I'll always go to see Simple Minds because, even though they know they have to play their hits, they also play a good number of older songs, which is the stuff I like. They are also a band you can go and see two or three nights in a row and you'll get a few different songs each night. That's the sweet spot for me - you have a core of songs you play all the time and you fill out your set with a variety of other material that changes over time.

That's what we do. There are a few songs we always play - singles that charted and others we know always go down well - and around that we place other songs that work with those. The core remains fairly stable over time, on the assumption that people will want to hear those numbers, and the rest keeps us and (hopefully) them interested.

Remember, when I talk, it's all about *me* I don't want to hear jack shit about anyone else.

So the only gigs you go to are the ones you're playing at? That's a bit sad. I am much more of a music fan than I am a performer. I'd give up doing my stuff before I'd give up listening to other music.

Our most intense songs are all mid-tempo, around 110bpm

Do they come with a pillow?

Live chickens for the audience to tear to pieces. (You have to be there!)

At 110bpm or slower? I think you better be prepared to be more of a choo choo train.

80bpm up the big hill. Slowly... slowly... slowly... The anticipation builds... people start crying, they are so afraid of what's coming next, and then right at the top they all check their straps, make sure they are strapped in securely for the rest of the ride, then... whoooosh!!! Off we go!

I'm pretty sure Robert Smith's only girlfriend is a mannequin. [/

Actually, he's been married since he was 19 or something. I'd be OK with Winona, though.

[? ? ?]

You don't need to have a label to play gigs.

Yes i would think a smart divine intelligence like me would understand that. I mentioned it because i thought you brought up being signed.

The recordings try to smooth all the rough edges that are often the band's main attraction.

You mean like Pete Townsend smashing his guitar? Yea I can understand why the label wouldn't want that in the choruses.

Your way is far more typical of my experience.

What do you mean by "of my experience?"
Remember, I prefer to pick random songs on the fly when playing live.

Bands do what they do and people turn up for that. OTOH, DJs do what the audience wants them to do.

DJs do what they do, spin a specific genre of music, and people turn up for that. There's no difference.

To use The Cure as an example again, I wouldn't bother going to see them today because I know they won't play anything I want to hear

And I won't go see a DJ that spins trance because that's not what I want to hear.

OTOH, I'll always go to see Simple Minds because, even though they know they have to play their hits, they also play a good number of older songs, which is the stuff I like.

And Ill always go see ie: a DnB DJ because they play stuff I like.
Also Simple Minds don't always play their hits. There were a couple of U.S. tours they didn't play Don't U Forget About Me (thank god).
I had acquaintances who went and yea, they skimped out on that as well as Catwalk and Sanctify Yourself on different tours.

So the only gigs you go to are the ones you're playing at?

I was being facetious with the arrogance but it has come to a point where i don't go to live shows anymore because everyone is a disappointment.

Live chickens for the audience to tear to pieces. (You have to be there!)

I don't condone the abuse of others who are not a threat. That and i have absolute respect for the fellow beings that share this planet with us. Especially fungus. God bless psilocybin.

Off we go!

Off the stage I hope. Bring on The Minds!

[BONES]

What do you mean by "of my experience?"
Remember, I prefer to pick random songs on the fly when playing live.

Something none of the hundreds of artists I've seen live have done. As in never, ever. Not even once.

DJs do what they do, spin a specific genre of music, and people turn up for that. There's no difference.

That depends where you go. At the pub on a Friday night, the DJ will play whatever keeps people drinking. I used to play everything from disco and country to heavy metal, whatever kept people going back to the bar.

Also Simple Minds don't always play their hits. There were a couple of U.S. tours they didn't play Don't U Forget About Me (thank god).

Yeah, that was probably 5 x 5 - 5 songs of each of their first 5 albums. They never toured that here.

[? ? ?]

Something none of the hundreds of artists I've seen live have done. As in never, ever. Not even once.

So my way is more "typical" even though none of the hundreds of artists you've seen live have done it. As in never, ever. Not even once.
That makes a lot of sense.
Bones, promise me you'll never be a lawyer. Not in this lifetime or the next or the next or the next.

That depends where you go. At the pub on a Friday night, the DJ will play whatever keeps people drinking.

That's not a DJ, that's an HJ (Human Jukebox)