Sad state of Native Instruments

[machinesworking]

Is there an alternative to NKS in terms of plugin integration?

Not anything as comprehensive.

In an alternate universe a plug in format would would appear that included tags for presets and macro controls for each that always showed up in the first slots in parameter automation making any controller capable of instantly using those macros.

[DrGonzo]

Is there an alternative to NKS in terms of plugin integration?

I think VIP from Akai does something similar.

Wonder why such functionality isn’t provided by the DAWs ?

Yeah. In terms of plugin integration this would be a natural step to integrate. Tagging presets with audio previews etc would not work well if built in a DAW. But plugin integration yeah. Could absolutely see that coming in the future.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Is there an alternative to NKS in terms of plugin integration?

Not for the preset management, but novation automap still hasn't been beaten for plugin control. I still use it with a 16 year old novation SL61mk1 and an SL zeromkii. The thing that really was amazing that nobody else managed to do was that the wrapper would load automatically even with old projects, and if you removed the automap software entirely everything kept functioning without the plugin wrappers just fine. For vst anyways not AU.

[rod_zero]

In Ableton Live you can configure the order parameters from plugins are organized and showed to any controller using a remote script.

[machinesworking]

In Ableton Live you can configure the order parameters from plugins are organized and showed to any controller using a remote script.

Yeah it's built in to Live, so you set it up once, and it opens those same parameters in order for any controller in the list of 8 controllers you can assign, which is too small of a number for me. Same is true in Bitwig, (and Logic, with a bit more work on the users end to get it to work).

The thing is you could publish all this along with presets as a plugin level making it universal, but that's not where we are.

[SebAV]

In Ableton Live you can configure the order parameters from plugins are organized and showed to any controller using a remote script.

Yeah it's built in to Live, so you set it up once, and it opens those same parameters in order for any controller in the list of 8 controllers you can assign, which is too small of a number for me. Same is true in Bitwig, (and Logic, with a bit more work on the users end to get it to work).

The thing is you could publish all this along with presets as a plugin level making it universal, but that's not where we are.

Live « configure » for plugins isn’t limited to 8 controls but it could be far more powerful by allowing renaming, explicit bank management and allow for inserting « blanks » to a better grouping. All of that is easily accessible for a m4l device but not for VST. One can even imagine user configurable « property » on each control such as « filter freq », « wave/saw/square/… » so that push could draw a related control on its screen (as it does for built-in Live devices)

[machinesworking]

Live « configure » for plugins isn’t limited to 8 controls

I knew someone would misinterpret, Live only has 8 slots for controller keyboards and control surfaces. I use a Slate Raven which takes 4 of them, so I can't use all my controller keyboards and control surfaces with Live in that advanced mode, only as dumb MIDI boxes. That along with the lack of metronome only during count in, and not just while recording are my personal feature requests for Live.

[ekkomouse]

Kontrol has only two pages of general midi control and appears not to have any device profiles, so only one extra device can be controlled?

Also it appears the smart play functions. Don’t work without the software, even though it has an internal processor now. It’s not very complete for midi control. I’ve been holding off on replacing my MK2 to see what they would drop, but this is probably not right for me without the ability to control other devices.

If I’m wrong about any of this, let me know

[ekkomouse]

Kontrol has only two pages of general midi control and appears not to have any device profiles, so only one extra device can be controlled?

Also it appears the smart play functions. Don’t work without the software, even though it has an internal processor now. It’s not very complete for midi control. I’ve been holding off on replacing my MK2 to see what they would drop, but this is probably not right for me without the ability to control other devices.

If I’m wrong about any of this, let me know

[SLiC]

Love how ironic this thread title has become

I'm not sure that new polyphonic keyboards and an update to guitar rig are all that mind blowing or enough to change this general sentiment.

Personally after the release of GR7 I suspect NI are circling the drain more than before, a real slap in the face for GR6 owners and were told thee new capturing system would deliver a flood of new amps and pedals. GR7 as a paid update is just infuriating, NI have gone from one of my favourite developers top close to bottom of the list (with PA and iZotope ironically!)

As for the new keyboards/NKS...lets see how the old stuff (MK2 etc) is supported, NI have a habit of dropping things to tray and force people to update or buy new things...

[mabian]

Take a look at this... incredible, no?

viewtopic.php?t=601520

- Mario

[SalvatoreColor]

i use kontakt alot

[kidslow]

Maybe still buzzkill worthy…

Does anyone know if Komplete Kontrol will work with AU plugins? If so, are there any limitation/disadvantage compared to using VST3?

Im assuming this is a no, considering how much KK was built on VST2.

So I guess, I have to ask… is anything changing for NKS that would allow KK to work with AU plugs, or will it remain VST3 only on silicon macs?

If it’s VST3, I just need to go back and install that on the laptop. I want to make sure it’s seamless going between laptop and desktop.

Just spent the past couple days trying to get my NKS in order. KK does not work with AU. If you install current native version of KK, it appears to only work with VST3 and you step into VST2 to VST3 migration layer issues with any preset NKS that has not been migrated, which I don't completely understand. They say you can run in Rosetta mode to access the preset libraries of VST2 plugins, but I did not find that to work well at all.

The whole KK system appears to be fraught and fragile. Perhaps it's a local issue for me, but the presets for NI's own instruments like Reaktor-based Razor & Form throw up a VST3 VST2 error in native mode. I get a different error in Rosetta mode. NI presets for their Kontakt libraries and third party K presets give same errors. A small universe of what I have available to me can actually take advantage of the full feature set of Komplete Kontrol --> Developers who supply VST3 and have made the migration with their NKS, and community NKS that have been upped to support VST3 are what I have found to be fully functional.

[elxsound]

Maybe still buzzkill worthy…

Does anyone know if Komplete Kontrol will work with AU plugins? If so, are there any limitation/disadvantage compared to using VST3?

Im assuming this is a no, considering how much KK was built on VST2.

So I guess, I have to ask… is anything changing for NKS that would allow KK to work with AU plugs, or will it remain VST3 only on silicon macs?

If it’s VST3, I just need to go back and install that on the laptop. I want to make sure it’s seamless going between laptop and desktop.

Just spent the past couple days trying to get my NKS in order. KK does not work with AU. If you install current native version of KK, it appears to only work with VST3 and you step into VST2 to VST3 migration layer issues with any preset NKS that has not been migrated, which I don't completely understand. They say you can run in Rosetta mode to access the preset libraries of VST2 plugins, but I did not find that to work well at all.

The whole KK system appears to be fraught and fragile. Perhaps it's a local issue for me, but the presets for NI's own instruments like Reaktor-based Razor & Form throw up a VST3 VST2 error in native mode. I get a different error in Rosetta mode. NI presets for their Kontakt libraries and third party K presets give same errors. A small universe of what I have available to me can actually take advantage of the full feature set of Komplete Kontrol --> Developers who supply VST3 and have made the migration with their NKS, and community NKS that have been upped to support VST3 are what I have found to be fully functional.

Damn, thank you for the explanation and sorry you had to navigate that.

That should help me set my expectations since I’m new to KK.

I do plan on only adding VST3, even if it’s limiting. My desktop is Intel, and laptop is M2. I’m hoping to clean things up before the S88 arrives so I can freely swap Live sets between them.

[RobGee]

So NI are now turning into the Apple of the plugin world and breaking backwards compatibility