which first synth to explain synthesis ? substractive & additive

[Niowiad]

Don't start with a modular. That's is a wrong suggestion. How the hell this could be even suggested for a starter



Start with something easy, rather than hurting a teen brain with a modular bullshit which is more or less will be good for farting sound experiments.

Choosing something like Arturia's ModularV definitely makes things unnecessarily harder than they should for a beginner because all modules are presented at once.

Fully modular environments such as VCV can be stripped down to the bare minimum (as I previously said, single VCO to output) and very gradually built up, in the simplest clearest way to understand and visualize signal flow.
That's actually easier and more effective than pre-routed synths where most of the routing is taken for granted and you don't fully understand what's going on.

I understand your point. But I'm sure (90%) that you started with a simpler synth

But, maybe, you are right about VCV if the "tutor" will provide him with the right "template". Then the templates will get more advanced as he progresses (FM, Additive etc). In this case yeah, the Moog comparison was a bit too extreme.

Now, of course, it does make sense to get a synth that still will be used after the learning phase. So getting a paid, but very restricted synth is not a good deal too.

That's true I sure started with basic (freeware) subtractive synths like Synth1 or NoiseMaker, in a self-learner scenario where I was just desperately looking for tutorials online, which are conventionally presented with full subtractive synths.
Shortly after I also bought Synthorial, which someone already suggested, and it's an excellent learning program.
Even then, it was only when I picked up a (software) modular system, when I realized I had been missing many fundamental links in my understanding of synthesis.
And I'm NOT even a modular enthusiast, I don't even enjoy programming modular as much as I thought in the past. But that doesn't take anything away from its ridiculous didactical potential.

Back to a present scenario where I'm supposed to teach anyone about "subtractive synthesis", I'd sure pick VCV Rack (or Cherry's Voltage) over any Minimoog or Juno emulation.
Adding one module at a time, reflecting on the implications and possibilities of any patch cable. Learning on what I think it's an extremely visually clear patching system, which doesn't hide anything away.
Hardware modular is probably more fun than software, but the immediacy of adding/removing/reordering modules in software for learning purposes cannot be understated.

Also, I was aware "modular for a beginner" sounds outrageous, but I think there's quite a difference between a "learning modular synthesis" and "learning synthesis on a modular synth".
The former, to me, means learning how to actually make music on a modular setup... it likely assumes a previous knowledge of synthesis, and it's going to be centered very much on sequencing, syncing through clock, gate/trigger signals and splitting/merging signals all the time.
The latter is much simpler than that, adding/patching one bulding block at a time.

I can definitely agree a pre-routed Juno/Minimoog is easier from a learner's perspective,, compared to the correspective built with modules.
The "one module at a time" process can also be very easy though, and it forces/helps the learner to understand what's going on in the signal flow.

[whyterabbyt]

While you can sugest me you modular synths tutorial (thanks god), offering this to 10 years guy as a first synth doesn't sound too practical to me. In the end, he could that later on.

Sorry, I really dont understand what you're trying to say there. Could you explain? If by 'this' you're talking about the synth you picked as an example, Im trying to explain to you that your example isnt representative of what would be practical.

Here's an example that would be far more practical, for example.

[Igro]

Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

you wish to teach him, but does he wish to learn?
if he's eager, id imagine he'll pick it up no matter what you use, if not, he may never grasp it no matter how simple you make it.

I wish my parents forced me to play a piano back then, when I wasn't pleased with the idea. By now I would thank them on my knees.

[whyterabbyt]

VCO? VCF? It is called so only in the "faithful" recreations. Those long beard guys standing with dosens of cables on their hands love those notions. Yeap, give the boy cables! Lol. ... And then he would pick a PlayStation for sure...

Im sure that in your head that's a very cogent and reasoned counter-argument. Its somewhat lacking in real life though.

[whyterabbyt]

Also, I was aware "modular for a beginner" sounds outrageous, but I think there's quite a difference between a "learning modular synthesis" and "learning synthesis on a modular synth".
The former, to me, means learning how to actually make music on a modular setup... it likely assumes a previous knowledge of synthesis, and it's going to be centered very much on sequencing, syncing through clock, gate/trigger signals and splitting/merging signals all the time.
The latter is much simpler than that, adding/patching one bulding block at a time..

Indeed, and mandates highlighting.
I'd honestly have thought that this wasnt that hard to understand, but given the follow-on behaviour, and hindsight, it would appear that the rejection of this rather simple idea is deliberate and contrived contrariness; bad faith, rather than mere misunderstanding or difference of opinion.

[HOTF]

Ideal synth for learning would be a SH-101 imo but any software or hardware emulation is also a good option. very simple architecture.

[Vince]

Just buy him a playstation 5.

believe it or not, he prefers his piano ...

[Vince]

Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

you wish to teach him, but does he wish to learn?
if he's eager, id imagine he'll pick it up no matter what you use, if not, he may never grasp it no matter how simple you make it.

As a side comment, please let me describe how eager he is to learn synth ... so he started attending music schools when he was 4, first in those kids classes ( he had a lot of fun and wanted the classes to be every day ) ... then he started learning the piano ( classical, in an academy ) when he was 6 ... and now he's 10, he jumped from level 3 to level 5 in piano ( at the request of his piano teacher ) and he's a huge fan of the work of Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Vince Clark, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Rammstein, etc ... ( on top of the usual Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Litsz, Rachmaninov, etc ).

I dont mean he's a virtuose or that he wants to become a star. Nope. He told me once that he hears a lot of new melodies in his head and would like to play them in real. That's his drive.

Myself, I have 10 signed deals with Sony/Scorpio Music around 20 years ago ... so he's all the time surrounded by music and musicians ... but, like it has been underlined by other users, I would like to keep it fun to create bonds with my son ( as he will "soon" reach teenagers time and will start to see me as an old fart for few years ... but that's another topic )

[Freaqpeak]

I used to write simple melodies at 10 as soon as i could understand simple notes..on paper. I only had a Piano, I could only dream of cool synths. I do think a hardware synth would be better choice. A nord lead, or any simple used poly VA. Tactile things wins over any software + midi controller... nord lead 4 is awesome and you can play 4 parts at
the same time and make your own jams and songs without any sequencer. Also, split keyboard to have bass / pad or lead is awesome.

[Freaqpeak]

Honestly, its more important to play than to know the tech behind it.. at that age. Just getting to know what you can do by using presets is good first step into the world of synthesis.

[vurt]

Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

you wish to teach him, but does he wish to learn?
if he's eager, id imagine he'll pick it up no matter what you use, if not, he may never grasp it no matter how simple you make it.

As a side comment, please let me describe how eager he is to learn synth ... so he started attending music schools when he was 4, first in those kids classes ( he had a lot of fun and wanted the classes to be every day ) ... then he started learning the piano ( classical, in an academy ) when he was 6 ... and now he's 10, he jumped from level 3 to level 5 in piano ( at the request of his piano teacher ) and he's a huge fan of the work of Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Vince Clark, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Rammstein, etc ... ( on top of the usual Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Litsz, Rachmaninov, etc ).

I dont mean he's a virtuose or that he wants to become a star. Nope. He told me once that he hears a lot of new melodies in his head and would like to play them in real. That's his drive.

Myself, I have 10 signed deals with Sony/Scorpio Music around 20 years ago ... so he's all the time surrounded by music and musicians ... but, like it has been underlined by other users, I would like to keep it fun to create bonds with my son ( as he will "soon" reach teenagers time and will start to see me as an old fart for few years ... but that's another topic )

in that case, just start with something, sounds like he has the bug already enough to push on with it.

im sure you'll both have great fun

[cryophonik]

Hello,

I would like to start teaching sound creations and synthesizers use to my 10 years old son.

you wish to teach him, but does he wish to learn?
if he's eager, id imagine he'll pick it up no matter what you use, if not, he may never grasp it no matter how simple you make it.

As a side comment, please let me describe how eager he is to learn synth ... so he started attending music schools when he was 4, first in those kids classes ( he had a lot of fun and wanted the classes to be every day ) ... then he started learning the piano ( classical, in an academy ) when he was 6 ... and now he's 10, he jumped from level 3 to level 5 in piano ( at the request of his piano teacher ) and he's a huge fan of the work of Kraftwerk, Vangelis, Vince Clark, Depeche Mode, Brian Eno, Rammstein, etc ... ( on top of the usual Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Litsz, Rachmaninov, etc ).

I dont mean he's a virtuose or that he wants to become a star. Nope. He told me once that he hears a lot of new melodies in his head and would like to play them in real. That's his drive.

Myself, I have 10 signed deals with Sony/Scorpio Music around 20 years ago ... so he's all the time surrounded by music and musicians ... but, like it has been underlined by other users, I would like to keep it fun to create bonds with my son ( as he will "soon" reach teenagers time and will start to see me as an old fart for few years ... but that's another topic )

I can see some parallels with our son. Our approach was always to buy him something he could grow into. He's always been a very easygoing kid who never asked for much, but was always passionate about a few select things, namely trains, photography (primarily trains), and more recently, acoustic guitars. He's certainly not spoiled by any means, but whenever we bought him something to feed his passions, we didn't skimp and we recognized that he was a sponge, like most pre-teens are. His first camera was a basic Nikon crop-sensor DSLR with kit lenses, but he quickly recognized that he could do far more with the cameras and lenses my wife and I use (photography is our side profession), so we quickly bumped him up to our cameras and he has access to any/all of our pro lenses. He's become an amazing photographer, has expanded into sports photography, is the head editor for his high school yearbook, etc.

I always hoped he would take an interest in my synths, and he knows that he is free to use them anytime he wants, but he has really gravitated toward acoustic guitar and folk/Americana music. So, he's taken over my old nylon-string acoustic that was gathering dust and has both a 12-string and 6-string coming for Christmas. He spends hours every evening and weekend playing his guitar, so we go out of our way to nurture that passion. I went to bed a little early last night and could hear him playing along with a John Denver song when I walked past his room... when most of his friends are playing video games. Anyway, that's probably TMI about my awesome kid, but my point is just that it sounds like your son also has a real passion for music, so it's great that you're actively engaged in it and feeding it!

[zerocrossing]

Don't start with a modular. That's is a wrong suggestion. How the hell this could be even suggested for a starter



Start with something easy, rather than hurting a teen brain with a modular bullshit which is more or less will be good for farting sound experiments.

That's actually not a true modular, or what anyone would recommend. A true modular means you can really mix and match anything. With the free VCV Rack edition, you could literally just load up an oscillator, patch it to the outputs, and go though all its controls. That one simple thing will be completely isolated from any clutter. Next add a filter, repeat, try an amp, etc. It won't be as "easy" as loading a simple synth, but you'll have a much better idea of what's going on under the hood of any synthesizer when you're done. It's how I learned, from a professional institution, and it stuck with me to a point where I generally never feel lost using any synthesizer.

[Vince]

With the free VCV Rack edition, you could literally just load up an oscillator, patch it to the outputs, and go though all its controls. That one simple thing will be completely isolated from any clutter. Next add a filter, repeat, try an amp, etc. It won't be as "easy" as loading a simple synth, but you'll have a much better idea of what's going on under the hood of any synthesizer when you're done.

Thanks, I'll also give it a try

[swilow11]

Also, I was aware "modular for a beginner" sounds outrageous, but I think there's quite a difference between a "learning modular synthesis" and "learning synthesis on a modular synth".
The former, to me, means learning how to actually make music on a modular setup... it likely assumes a previous knowledge of synthesis, and it's going to be centered very much on sequencing, syncing through clock, gate/trigger signals and splitting/merging signals all the time.
The latter is much simpler than that, adding/patching one bulding block at a time..

Indeed, and mandates highlighting.
I'd honestly have thought that this wasnt that hard to understand, but given the follow-on behaviour, and hindsight, it would appear that the rejection of this rather simple idea is deliberate and contrived contrariness; bad faith, rather than mere misunderstanding or difference of opinion.

Don't know about that. It seems that people may be conflating learning how a synthesiser works with what a synthesiser does. The OP wants his son to understand synthesis, not synthesisers.

You absolutely do not need to understand modular to be able to very effectively and enjoyably use synths. The dudes son is 10. He's clearly going to enjoy making weird noises more than knowing about signal flow.