What is the attraction with logic ?

[pdxindy]

I notice a few people talking about Logic's step sequencer - can someone please explain to me what the purpose of a step sequencer is in any application with a piano roll? Surely it is made completely and utterly redundant by the PR?

The step sequencer does a lot of things that are hard or impossible to do in a piano roll. You can set different lengths and clock dividers for each lane, probabilities at each step, randomize any value you want etc.

Also you can automate device parameters and the data is all very visible and editable. The automation lances can also have different lengths and clock dividers. You can arrange them how you want. If you just want to see C3, E3 and G3, that's easy. Turn on recording and touch 3-4 parameters in a synth UI and they are immediately made into automation lanes ready to draw data in. The Logic Step Sequencer is very fast to work with. It can be converted at any time to a regular midi region and back again.

[30pinsimms]

I've never cared for Logic. It's sort of a Cult of Mac thing. I use a Mac now and I love it. But I just can't get on board with Logic or AudioUnits.

I always felt like Ableton was copping Logic's look and feel. Never liked Ableton, either.

? I use Both and there is not one thing similar in looks or feel or workflow. The logic "loops" update may be similar but I have never used it so I don't know.

[kuniklo]

Also you can automate device parameters and the data is all very visible and editable. The automation lances can also have different lengths and clock dividers. You can arrange them how you want. If you just want to see C3, E3 and G3, that's easy. Turn on recording and touch 3-4 parameters in a synth UI and they are immediately made into automation lanes ready to draw data in. The Logic Step Sequencer is very fast to work with. It can be converted at any time to a regular midi region and back again.

Right. These days I tend to mainly use Bitwig but I'd love to have something like the Logic step sequencer built in to other DAWs. I find it very inspirational.

[BONES]

The step sequencer does a lot of things that are hard or impossible to do in a piano roll. You can set different lengths and clock dividers for each lane, probabilities at each step, randomize any value you want etc.

I've watched a couple of videos on it, as well as checking out aa few things in Studio One, and it seems I have vastly over-estimated the capabilities of the piano roll in supposedly superior DAWs. I had assumed that it would be at least as good as Orion's but it turns out it's actually not very good at all, which I find bizarre. All the things you guys use the step sequencer for are trivial in Orion's PR, yet people were constantly complaining about how hard/clunky automation was in Orion, which is why I assumed other DAWs could do things even better/more easily.

Of course, these are things that never come up for me, as I tend to use velocity modulation where you would use automation. It's always seemed like a better solution to me, for the same reasons you like the step sequencer - quick, easy and automatically quantised per note.

[pdxindy]

Right. These days I tend to mainly use Bitwig but I'd love to have something like the Logic step sequencer built in to other DAWs. I find it very inspirational.

I also mainly use Bitwig. I talk about the Logic Step Sequencer cause I want it in Bitwig

Logic's tempo mapping would be more useful for me.

[machinesworking]

What blows me away is how few DAWs have automation modulation types? You can more or less do this with Logic, Live and Bitwig in terms of the clips, take a clip and use it to modulate other sources with a set length and any shape you want really, but DP does all sorts of LFO type automation shapes with the ability to shape them afterwords with graphic representation in the timeline. It just seems like such an obvious thing to be able to call up an sine, square, or triangle shape, locked to the beat and have it fade out etc. written into automation.

[BONES]

Again, something Orion's PR had 20 years ago.

[Michael L]

Again, something Orion's PR had 20 years ago.

BONES.jpg

[machinesworking]

I need to figure out how to get this image to pop up before I post on forums etc.
Random aside, has anyone heard any official reason why Logic doesn't use the Efficiency cores with Apple Silicon Macs? Reaper and DP get a lot more horsepower using them, but there could be a rational explantation etc.

[BONES]

BONES.jpg

You need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word "argue". This is nothing more than a discussion. As I said, I am amazed at how poor most piano rolls are compared to one that was regularly complained about on the Synapse forum when it was around. It's like your comment on the BA-1 forum - people seem to expect everything to work the way they are used to things working and see any deviation as a bug to be "fixed", rather than a better way of doing things to be embraced.

Of course, different isn't always better but nobody seems willing to put any time or effort into finding out, they'd rather just complain that it's different. It's definitely something I've been guilty of at times but I try to be open to at least looking into different things, Logic's step sequencer being a good example. It's one of the ways you learn and grow as a professional (or hobbyist).

[Michael L]

BONES.jpg

You need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word "argue".

OK, just for you:

Intransitive verb
1: to give reasons for or against something : REASON
argue for a new policy
2: to contend or disagree in words : DISPUTE
They're always arguing about money.

Transitive verb
1: to give evidence of : INDICATE
The facts argue his innocence.
2: to consider the pros and cons of : DISCUSS
argue an issue
3: to prove or try to prove by giving reasons : MAINTAIN
asking for a chance to argue his case
4: to persuade by giving reasons : INDUCE
couldn't argue her out of going

See you "on the other side"

[revvy]

BONES.jpg

You need to find a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word "argue".

OK, just for you:

Intransitive verb
1: to give reasons for or against something : REASON
argue for a new policy
2: to contend or disagree in words : DISPUTE
They're always arguing about money.

Transitive verb
1: to give evidence of : INDICATE
The facts argue his innocence.
2: to consider the pros and cons of : DISCUSS
argue an issue
3: to prove or try to prove by giving reasons : MAINTAIN
asking for a chance to argue his case
4: to persuade by giving reasons : INDUCE
couldn't argue her out of going

See you "on the other side"

The pic you posted was great, its title was perfect, and bones quoting it and arguing back was like performance art.

[jancivil]

...
I'm amazed at people saying "most piano rolls"...