Lots more people will be moving to Linux now

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glokraw wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 2:45 pm ... and there is a related topic, posts with screenshots etc at:

viewtopic.php?t=503359&start=465
Thank you!
glokraw wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 2:45 pm There are few musical capabilities I'm missing, but they are mainly automated cardboard cutout mastering tools that I would do by hand anyway, to obviate my musicianship skillz :scared: :( :wink: (and I don't attempt to use a corolla for F150 duties, be it computer or real-world tasks)
I love your way of thinking about these details. This is having control over your creative tools. If the tools drive things too much, what happens when they change or aren't supported any longer? For example, so many of my favorite plugins from the mid 2000s are just gone. But that is also when I found U-he...Zebra CM baby!
glokraw wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 2:45 pm The linux native collection is always improving, but a casual glance won't cut it. And I'm not interested in paying a premium for an OS i'll need to mud-wrestle for common data security. Diva before windows 13, 4dahwinnn
This!

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cnt wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am Linux has major issues with drivers for network adapters ...
That's more than 25 years that I use and work with Linux, notably in embedded network devices and never saw or heard about having major issues with network adapters (plural).

So I ask :

What problems with network adapters ? Which ones and what are the issues ?

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cnt wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am
GaryG wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 12:31 pm
gruberman wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 12:05 pm Don't buy a copilot+ pc?
copilot was added in a recent update so potentially all win11 pcs will have it
... anything like this and other features can be Disabled of course.

Having all your apps for linux is of course also valuable..unfortunately alot of software you need for work, doesnt work as good as on Windows (using wine or native linux).
Linux has major issues with drivers for network adapters and also many audio interfaces, not its own fault, but still a real issue.
I won't disagree when it comes to software--there isn't nearly the variety or choice available natively. Although I have sufficient for my needs. And, of course, running Windows apps through WINE on Linux isn't as reliable as using native apps.

However, I'm not sure I would agree with what you say about Linux drivers. The philosophy around drivers are completely different than the Windows drivers philosophy, granted. But, Linux driver support is really awesome, so it depends upon your point of view. Unlike Windows, all drivers are stored in the kernel. In other words, all the drivers you need are available from boot-up, all of the time. This is a really nice feature. With Windows, you have to obtain and install drivers from the manufacturer. If the manufacturer doesn't keep up with support, then your hardware will likely be left behind. I'll give an example: I have a well known, nearly 25 year old audio card with a breakout box for the inputs and outputs (M-Audio Delta 44 PCI Audio Interface). The last Windows driver support was for Windows 7 SP1. That card won't run on Windows 11. However, it will still run on Linux.

https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Matrix:Vendor-MAudio

https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Matrix:Module-ice1712

The point is that, while Linux does not have the sheer number of supported hardware that Windows does, it has supported hardware for almost all of the popular hardware, and it will run on Linux for you for decades.

I guess I ought to add this too, for a full honest declaration: I currently don't use a desktop anymore, I use a laptop--a well supported Lenovo Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen 5. As such, I don't use my MAudio Delta 44 right now, I'm using an Arturia MiniFuse 4 USB-C Audio Interface - White
4-in/4-out USB-C Audio Interface (USB 2.0 Compatible) with 2 Mic/Line/Instrument Preamps, 2 Line Inputs, 5-pin MIDI DIN I/O, 2 x 250mA USB-A Hub Ports, and Included Software Suite - Mac/PC. Did you notice that very last part? The MiniFuse 4 only provides driver support for Macs and Windows. This is another really nice thing about Linux. Linux, just like Apple iOS devices, will run on any Class Compliant piece of hardware, with no drivers. While Windows can too, there is one major difference: Linux can run these with very low latency. With Windows, if you are using Class Compliant drivers, at best, you will only get the latency as low as ASIO4ALL will get you, which isn't really that great.

So, over all, my point is that while Linux does have less available supported hardware, all of the popular hardware is supported, and Linux provides benefits that Windows can't. So, I'd say that Linux driver support is pretty good--even if it is completely different from the way Windows does things. :)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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mevla wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 7:47 pm
cnt wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am Linux has major issues with drivers for network adapters ...
That's more than 25 years that I use and work with Linux, notably in embedded network devices and never saw or heard about having major issues with network adapters (plural).

So I ask :

What problems with network adapters ? Which ones and what are the issues ?
He's probably referring to the fact that there aren't too many USB WiFi dongles with supported chipsets for Linux. The thing that he probably doesn't know, is that there are still a lot of USB WiFi dongles available--he just needs to get one that supports linux.

For those who don't use Linux, I'll mention this to make your transition easier. When putting together a new Linux system, you want to hand pick each part to confirm that it is supported by Linux. If you do this, Linux support will out live your system's hardware. Your hardware will die of old age failures before you'd get close to losing Linux support for your computer--and that's regardless of how many Linux upgrades you do. :)
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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ooh, they may hit double figures in the yearly poll :hihi:

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vurt wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 8:13 am ooh, they may hit double figures in the yearly poll :hihi:
You crack me up! :lol: :hug:
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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My multiple poisonalitees all volunteered to help us reach such a lofty goal :hyper:

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I have used linux every day since 1996. First slackware but now mostly Debian.
I know about which chipset that "works" and really works. Or have no support at all for linux.
I do analysis of chipset drivers by looking at 802.11 frames captures in my job. And lot of linux drivers do not support all the features of Wifi Alliance certification to be considered officially as Wifi6, wifi6e or Wifi7 (good luck finding Wifi7 chipsets for linux when you have an AMD platform).
Esp. this problem is for the CURRENT chipsets sold in laptops, IEEE 802.11ax with 6 GHz support and 802.11be. Linux drivers are NOT official from a lot of hardware vendors. And they arent tested, verified or certified from Wifi Alliance on Linux. So, what you think is "working" might "work" at home networks with simple PSK and a single accesspoint, but not on enterprise networks using 802.11k, 802.11v, 802.11r and WMM (QoS) etc which IS a part of the standard. Alot of drivers are broken so they misbehave.
This isnt linux devs fault since they have to reverse engineer drivers for chipset makers from like Realtek, qualcomm and others who dont release official linux drivers. This also contributes to the fact that alot of new laptops wont work with linux. Intel does release linux drivers but since they now make "for Intel only 802.11be chipsets" ppl with AMD are out of luck at the moment.
Thing is, no one really use USB for wifi, they use the laptops or motherboards wifi card 99% of the time.
I have about 20 different usb dongles, m2 pci adapters for testing purposes... recently reported issues to HP for delivering a whole set of laptop models with broken drivers even for Windows.

The thing is, as a customer, you often dont know exactly what chipset you get when you buy a laptop or workstation..only the more hardcore users check this before buying.
This is bad behaviour of chipset and computer manufacturors, but in the end, its making linux for desktop look bad..

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It's kind of funny that anyone would worry about some big brother entity "spying on them". What is it you think makes any of us worth spying on? I am not saying that data is not collected, it definitely is! But if you are worried about switching from Microsoft Windows to something else for this reason you should probably get rid of your cell phone first as it is the biggest collector of data that we have. If someone is tracking me they are probably going to come up with a pretty boring report. :hihi:

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mevla wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 7:47 pm
cnt wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:21 am Linux has major issues with drivers for network adapters ...
That's more than 25 years that I use and work with Linux, notably in embedded network devices and never saw or heard about having major issues with network adapters (plural).

So I ask :

What problems with network adapters ? Which ones and what are the issues ?
I say you dont work with Wifi networks and with hardware using the latest generations of Wifi standards (wifi6, wifi6e and wifi7). ;)
For embedded stuff its already "tested" for linux (there ARE drivers but they canbehave badly), many use VERY old chipsets only supporting 2.4 ghz...its cheap. this is a major issue for customers having large enterprise networks when buying some IoT stuff. Lots of ppl selling IoT/specialized quipment that uses Wifi dont understand how Wifi works. They just think that 15 year old 802.11n chipsets with 2.4 ghz support only is fine because they tested it in dev/lab environments, not in real life in high density environments where 2.4 ghz is totally filled with interference....for example.

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cnt wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:05 am I have used linux every day since 1996. First slackware but now mostly Debian.
I know about which chipset that "works" and really works. Or have no support at all for linux.
I do analysis of chipset drivers by looking at 802.11 frames captures in my job. And lot of linux drivers do not support all the features of Wifi Alliance certification to be considered officially as Wifi6, wifi6e or Wifi7 (good luck finding Wifi7 chipsets for linux when you have an AMD platform).
Esp. this problem is for the CURRENT chipsets sold in laptops, IEEE 802.11ax with 6 GHz support and 802.11be. Linux drivers are NOT official from a lot of hardware vendors. And they arent tested, verified or certified from Wifi Alliance on Linux. So, what you think is "working" might "work" at home networks with simple PSK and a single accesspoint, but not on enterprise networks using 802.11k, 802.11v, 802.11r and WMM (QoS) etc which IS a part of the standard. Alot of drivers are broken so they misbehave.
This isnt linux devs fault since they have to reverse engineer drivers for chipset makers from like Realtek, qualcomm and others who dont release official linux drivers. This also contributes to the fact that alot of new laptops wont work with linux. Intel does release linux drivers but since they now make "for Intel only 802.11be chipsets" ppl with AMD are out of luck at the moment.
Thing is, no one really use USB for wifi, they use the laptops or motherboards wifi card 99% of the time.
I have about 20 different usb dongles, m2 pci adapters for testing purposes... recently reported issues to HP for delivering a whole set of laptop models with broken drivers even for Windows.

The thing is, as a customer, you often dont know exactly what chipset you get when you buy a laptop or workstation..only the more hardcore users check this before buying.
This is bad behaviour of chipset and computer manufacturors, but in the end, its making linux for desktop look bad..
I don’t disagree with any of this. This is currently one of the tough parts of using linux. I personally researched every component and chipset before buying my equipment. But once you have properly supported equipment, you are good for the long haul—years and years. One of the best things is to buy a system that is vendor supported. Dells, Lenovos, and the Intel NUC series devices have been good to me. Also, I seldom buy the newest model—I usually buy the previous year’s model to allow time for the kernel drivers and firmware to be released for linux.

For example: I bought my Lenovo laptop about 3 years ago. I’ll probably use it for the next 5 years. When I’m ready to buy a new laptop (5 years from now), I’ll buy a new one that came out 4 years ago. It will still be a huge leap from my 7 year old laptop. And, a sufficient enough amount of time for the drivers to be released will likely have happened.
C/R, dongles & other intrusive copy protection equals less-control & more-hassle for consumers. Company gone-can’t authorize. Limit to # of auths. Instability-ie PACE. Forced internet auths. THE HONEST ARE HASSLED, NOT THE PIRATES.

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clangorous wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 11:22 am Thank goodness u-he supports Linux...besides some stock effects, I no longer use any other instruments or effects because u-he has everything covered and its awesome.

Now with the new Windoze 11 AI spy (Copilot) I expect bunches of people will be ending their Windows relationship. And Mac is great but if you want control, Linux is it.

Urs, I hope U-he never trades any of its magic for AI...you guys are an independent stronghold against "the man," which now includes the already homicidal AI version of "the man" and Microsoft has given it "Skynet" like control (notice that the search engines that use MS AI were all down this morning...)

So I'm starting with Ubuntu Studio, and we'll see from there.
I'm using ubuntu with bitwig and all of u-he's plugins and everything works fine. Arturia mentioned they are considering support and that they feel Linux users are more computer savvy and they'd expect less support requests.

Linux is certainly coming around with Ubuntu 24.04 having built kernel support for reat-time processing. There's no need to install a different real-time kernel. That'll help with audio, graphics and gaming. Arch has had that support for sometime as well as pipewire.. Also worth noting is pipewire and wireplumber support now shipping with ubuntu 24.04 as the default audio system. It has been a long transition but it'll be better in the long term.

Real-time kernel support and the audio subsystem has been a thorn in linux desktop and one reason for slow adoption but, that's purely my opinion. Obviously software support is another but even MS Edge supports linux now so it's slowly growing.
Ubuntu 24.04 (beta)- Liquorix Kernel (latency 1.15ms) - Pipewire & Wireplumber - bitwig - yabridge (dune, spire, pigments, valhalla)- CLAP - Vital - U-He - TAL - OSIRUS - Surge XT - discoDSP - Audio Damage
KORG Native for Linux please.

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I'm running Linux Mint (Cinnamon), it has a low-latency kernel available too.
Works perfectly here.

I previously started recording in Windows until 2014, then it crashed and couldn't reïnstall Windows with the original dvd's... that was a real bummer.
I managed to make my computer work again after installing Linux and slowly built my way up into the linux world, looking for alternatives.
In 10 years, the development of daw's, plugins, ... in linux grew very fast, and from my experience, the amount of users aswel.
Get In Touch^^ Instagram, BandCamp, SoundCloud, Spotify, iTunes,....

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bobhva wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:14 am It's kind of funny that anyone would worry about some big brother entity "spying on them". What is it you think makes any of us worth spying on? I am not saying that data is not collected, it definitely is! But if you are worried about switching from Microsoft Windows to something else for this reason you should probably get rid of your cell phone first as it is the biggest collector of data that we have. If someone is tracking me they are probably going to come up with a pretty boring report. :hihi:
So "resistance is futile?" How about I'm tired of paying for processor speed, memory, and storage that these companies use for their own purposes. I want my resources applied to my activities to enrich ME not them. The biggest resource being applied are my f**king taxes, which are being used to monitor me. What is AI for? To create a virtual YOU that they can use to control your thinking and behavior. That is not benign, it is for control - not for showing me endless ads of toilet seats because I bought one 3 years ago and they think I want to collect them. That's not AI.

Further, look into the history of IBM and tell me that data collection is no problem for people who are boring to the government.

Good luck!

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Ah the usual "this is the year of Linux desktop" thread. Which never really happens. :lol:

Get this: majority of people will not care, and familiarity beats everything else.

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