Ableton Move (now available)

[carrieres]

Let's see if I got this straight: Ableton releases Live in 2001; fast forward 23 years later and they release a hardware unit that can't do as much as - for example - one released in 2002 (Roland MC-909)?

Bedroom musicians is a long term big business.

You need to compare the MC-909 with Push3
When the MC-909 was released in 2002 it was priced at 1499£
It is 1787€ without the inflation, 2701£ with the inflation so 3 221€

[BoogerSnot]

Why have you truncated that quote ? The full quote is:

While there’s no way to transfer clips or projects to Move from Live, users can upload their own samples to the device. A coming update – which we’ve tested – will let users create compatible Drum and Instrument Racks in Live and upload them to Move, albeit only making use of the compatible device list.

I didn’t truncate anything. Review CLEARLY states you can upload samples now, and an update will allow you to create Racks in Live with compatible devices and import them into Move, and those compatible devices include synths. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

[ChiTown24]

Why have you truncated that quote ? The full quote is:

While there’s no way to transfer clips or projects to Move from Live, users can upload their own samples to the device. A coming update – which we’ve tested – will let users create compatible Drum and Instrument Racks in Live and upload them to Move, albeit only making use of the compatible device list.

I didn’t truncate anything. Review CLEARLY states you can upload samples now, and an update will allow you to create Racks in Live with compatible devices and import them into Move, and those compatible devices include synths. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

You didn't truncate anything ? You literally did - not sure why you're pretending you didn't when anyone can visit the article and see for themselves. And I explained why the first sentence you truncated out of a short two sentence paragraph adds context to the second sentence you cherry picked. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[machinesworking]

Let's see if I got this straight: Ableton releases Live in 2001; fast forward 23 years later and they release a hardware unit that can't do as much as - for example - one released in 2002 (Roland MC-909)?

Bedroom musicians is a long term big business.

I mean to be fair an MC101/707 doesn't do as much as an MC909 but Roland released that in 2019. A lot of people buy stuff like Circuits and MC101s and stuff from Teenage Engineering so there is a market for more limited groove boxes that allow people to just sit and start tapping out beats/music.

I think it's a counterargument some hardware manufacturers are making to the complexity and feature creep of DAWs. The premise being that if your options are limited you as a creator will be more inspired to be creative.

I get it, but they take it too far. IMO Live (the DAW I think of with a emphasis on UX), is now where it should have been 15 odd years ago, It's simple and intuitive up front but if you dig deeper it's got features that allow for complexity, and of course if you really want complexity there're M4L. You could use it forever without dual monitors or knowing that it's now capable of full screen editing of MIDI and Audio, but the fact that wasn't the case to begin with was just....

I'm fighting this absolute soul crushing sinking feeling watching multiple hardware sequencers come out over the years that can only do 4/4, this is where IMO intuitive immediate gratification cuts out creativity. I don't want to be that guy but I do feel that in some sense comes from people not writing out parts by banging on a keyboard or drum pads, but from automatically respecting the bars and thus writing only in 4/4. So developers and engineers don't even bother adding in anything like meters into the sequencer to begin with.

I mean how hard were any of the drum machines from 15-30 years ago to use? Yes DAWs get complex and silly for sure, and there is a real need for ergonomics and user interface with the older DAWs, but it shouldn't come at the expense of basic music fundamentals.

[ChiTown24]

the Novation Circuit only undercuts it by $50 bucks.

[ChiTown24]

For funsie wunsies, I've looked up compared processing benchmarks of the chips used in the $349 iPad (current, 10th generation) vs the $449 Ableton (Bowel) Move(ment).

Note: Ableton have possibly overclocked the processor to hit 1.5ghz, how much gains that would net compared to 1.416ghz I will leave up to you to decide.


https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/40 ... e-1416-MHz

"What processor does Move come with?
Move’s processor is a quad-core ARM Cortex-A72 at 1.5 GHz with 2 GB of RAM and a custom OS optimized for music creation and performance. "
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/artic ... hnical-FAQ

This comparison doesn't really make sense imo. Who cares what the specs of the chip are.

It makes all the sense in the world. Move is simply 'Note in a box'. Note is an iOS app released by Ableton two years ago. The 10th (current) generation iPad is the cheapest (when bought new) iOS device that you can run the Note app on. So, it's an obvious and fair comparison - use/buy the hardware that the software was originally designed for - or pay an enormous premium to run it on bespoke, limited hardware.

it's as if Ableton executives had brainstorming session about making an Ableton branded grid pad controller for Note, and then some genius said "hey, let's throw in a dirt cheap 8yr old ARM processor and triple the price!"

[ChiTown24]

4 parts is quite the limitation.

Yes, but there's hope - if they come to aknowledge their mistake they should probably be able to correct it with a firmware update.

no, there's no hope. it's a 4-core chip, it's not a coincidence that there's a 4 track limit. there won't be extra tracks without lowering the processing ceiling on the other tracks, nor any overclocking options without diminishing battery life. and they don't have a magic firmware wand to change the processing limits of the hardware or increase the size of the battery.

[ChiTown24]

Yes, but there's hope - if they come to aknowledge their mistake they should probably be able to correct it with a firmware update.

Good point. I imagine that's fixable.

Yes - I mean given that (for whatever reason) they apparently went with (the smaller 2gb variant of) a Raspberry Pi 4b instead of the 5b

It isn't a Raspberry Pi. It simply uses the same processor used by the Raspberry Pi (4).

this might proof to put too much strain on the system after all, so a polyphony- and fx limited switcheable mode might be required, but I think that would be a reasonable trade-off after all....

ya, that's not the design philosophy Ableton are going for. see: 'It just works'

This makes me think: if it's really a Raspberry Pi it should probably be possible to open the thing and swap the board for a 5b and the firmware should be hackable, right?

anyways, it's super cute that you tried to gatekeep me from discussing this new device, but then went on to speculate based on talking points which I introduced to the thread.

[nanostream]

I think I might have been interested if those pads were full MPE. I got used to it and don’t want to miss it. Push 3 is lovely, but it’s too big and heavy to fool around with it on the couch or wherever. Move could’ve been the quick and dirty solution for whipping up ideas on the go, but without MPE I feel I’d miss something.

Lucky me I guess, I don’t have to spend 450 € But a cheap-ish, reliable and portable MPE controller including Live lite would’ve been nice indeed.

[jens]

anyways, it's super cute that you tried to gatekeep me from discussing this new device, but then went on to speculate based on talking points which I introduced to the thread.

yeah, next time maybe try to be just a little less obnoxious about it...

(besides, fyi: I didn't base these speculative posts of mine on anything you posted)

[Uncle E]

no, there's no hope. it's a 4-core chip, it's not a coincidence that there's a 4 track limit. there won't be extra tracks without lowering the processing ceiling on the other tracks, nor any overclocking options without diminishing battery life. and they don't have a magic firmware wand to change the processing limits of the hardware or increase the size of the battery.

Sorry, I don't get that correlation. Given that all 4 parts are able to be drum kits, the polyphony for each part must be high and that's usually the thing that eats up power. So if they simply allow us to balance the polyphony, more than 4 parts ought to be possible.

I'm not saying you're wrong and I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone buy this with the hope of getting more parts later.

[apoclypse]

the Novation Circuit only undercuts it by $50 bucks.

Were you trying to make a point here?

[Michael L]

[Michael L]

Were you trying to make a point here?

Music Radar review:

"It's worth saying too, that while Move's price is reasonable for everything it does, to get your money's worth, users need to buy into the full workflow. If, for example, you're interested in a standalone synth and sample sequencer but not concerned about seamless Live compatibility, Novation's Circuit Tracks offers more bang-for-your-buck. Similarly, both Novation and Akai make better-value compact devices if you're only interested in controlling Live."

https://www.musicradar.com/music-tech/d ... ove-review

[Michael L]