Ableton Move (now available)

[eclipxe]

Love the Move. Mine arrives tomorrow. Perfect device for me. The workflow (16 sounds per drum track, tr rec step sequencer, etc) looks amazing and I love being able to manage the samples via the web from my phone. Love that it has wifi and syncs my ableton projects. Love it.

[ChiTown24]

no, there's no hope. it's a 4-core chip, it's not a coincidence that there's a 4 track limit. there won't be extra tracks without lowering the processing ceiling on the other tracks, nor any overclocking options without diminishing battery life. and they don't have a magic firmware wand to change the processing limits of the hardware or increase the size of the battery.

Sorry, I don't get that correlation. Given that all 4 parts are able to be drum kits, the polyphony for each part must be high and that's usually the thing that eats up power. So if they simply allow us to balance the polyphony, more than 4 parts ought to be possible.

To begin with, polyphony of drumkits doesn't eat CPU like polyphony of synthesis. Samples, typically, have much less processing overhead - and eat RAM or streaming bandwidth instead.

Anyway, I think the main reason you don't seem to be seeing a correlation between 4 track limit and 4 core processor is because you are thinking in terms of PC usage when you suggest they might allow you to balance these polyphonic processing demands across many tracks. Frankly, I'll shit into my hat and eat it if they would go down that path. They will set their track limits based on the most demanding possible processing scenario their design allows for a track, because that's what you'd have to do to ensure it just works whatever the user is doing, which is - as far as I'm concerned - the design philosophy they are going for. A design philosophy that has a lot of implications beyond just user experience (support / returns). Better to just set people's expectations according to the most demanding scenarios from the outset, and not disappoint them from that point.

Is it possible they have plenty of processing overhead even in the current most demanding processing scenario, and they just arbitrarily limited it to 4 tracks to launch, so that they could double it to 8 down the line to generate some good will / renew interest ? I mean, sure, any thing is possible but that would be an absolutely wild way to sabotage the launch of your own product. Whatever about adding features down the line, no matter what your roadmap looks like you'd want to know what your track counts limit looks like from the beginning and launch with it. Limiting to 4 tracks gives them more scope to do more with those tracks, with that processor.

Certainly, MIDI is cheaper to process - but if they're already squeezing every last drop out of the 4 tracks as it is (at the most demanding scenario), maybe it doesn't matter how cheap it is. On that note, I'm very disappointed they didn't offer some respectable MIDI sequencing as part of the software and hardware (single USB A is pathetic) package. A package which isn't at all cheap. But then, this is 'Note in a box' .... So no MIDI soup for me. And it's not like they're lacking in the MIDI department when you consider all the MIDI tools they've developed for Live. Certainly, if you look at the connection options in the back of Move (USB a & c), it's hard to believe they have any notions of developing this thing as a decent MIDI sequencer. It's as limited as Note, and if you're connecting it to Live that is where you can work on your MIDI.

But I digress.

Out of curiosity, how many hardware products do you know of that increased their (audio/sample/synth) track count down line from launch (without having promised such an increase when launching the product) ? I would say it's a rare occurrence, assuming you can recall any ...

I certainly wouldn't recommend anyone but this with the hope of getting more parts later.

Absolutely. That's basically the TL;DR.

[Uncle E]

They will set their track limits based on the most demanding possible processing scenario their design allows for a track, because that's what you'd have to do to ensure it just works whatever the user is doing, which is - as far as I'm concerned - the design philosophy they are going for. A design philosophy that has a lot of implications beyond just user experience (support / returns). Better to just set people's expectations according to the most demanding scenarios from the outset, and not disappoint them from that point.

Excellent points.

Out of curiosity, how many hardware products do you know of that increased their (audio/sample/synth) track count down line from launch (without having promised such an increase when launching the product) ?

Maybe Akai? But you're right, few if any.

Come to think of it, if each "drum" can be played chromatically, as they can in MPC and Maschine, then 4 parts won't be too bad.

[elxsound]

I have no insight but I also wouldn’t expect higher track count at a later date.

So much goes into designing and then manufacturing for a massive release, they would have needed to sell the 4 track count hard to everyone in Ableton long before it entered beta testing.

I believe resampling is an option and it’s likely a workflow philosophy that goes back to old days while borrowing from OP-1 concepts (but with more flexibility).

[eclipxe]

Got my move. Yes, this thing is excellent. Great feel. VERY fast. Sets load instantly. The wifi connectivity makes getting content on and off very easy even with my phone (load up splice on my phone and send samples wirelessly to the device). TR-REC step sequencing is great. Capture is super useful and its very very very easy to get into a state of flow with the device. With 16 sounds on the drum racks and being able to take any sample to pitch mode on that drum rack, while staying in key, the 4 tracks don't feel like a limit. Haven't been able to put the device down - haven't been this happy with a new portable groove box in a while. Not for finishing tracks but great for getting started and having fun trying ideas.

[Funky40]

With 16 sounds on the drum racks .......

What device/devices is it exactly loading to a Drum track ?


i´m asking since i´m a bit confused vs. the new drum sampler rspctvly. the nomenklatur.
ahh wait, "Drum-Rack" vs. "Drum-Sampler".
So, is it loading a drum-rack with a drum-sampler loaded into each slot ?
What exactly ?

maximum is 16 individual samples/sample slots per drum track, right ?

[electro]

Can you use the Move as an ASIO Soundcard and how is the low RTL performance?

[elxsound]

With 16 sounds on the drum racks .......

What device/devices is it exactly loading to a Drum track ?


i´m asking since i´m a bit confused vs. the new drum sampler rspctvly. the nomenklatur.
ahh wait, "Drum-Rack" vs. "Drum-Sampler".
So, is it loading a drum-rack with a drum-sampler loaded into each slot ?
What exactly ?

maximum is 16 individual samples/sample slots per drum track, right ?

Yes. The Drum Rack is a container that can host instruments per pad (per note). Move’s Drum Racks load the new Drum Sampler, per pad.

If you transfer a project from Move to Live 12, you’ll see the Drum Sampler instrument.
From the manual

Note: Drum Racks in Move contain the Drum Sampler instrument, introduced in Live 12.1. If you open a Move Set that contains Drums presets in Live 11 or a version of Live 12 earlier than 12.1, Drum Sampler will be converted to Simpler. This can cause Sets to sound different in Live, especially if Drum Sampler’s playback effects were used in the Move Set.

[machinesworking]

They will set their track limits based on the most demanding possible processing scenario their design allows for a track, because that's what you'd have to do to ensure it just works whatever the user is doing, which is - as far as I'm concerned - the design philosophy they are going for. A design philosophy that has a lot of implications beyond just user experience (support / returns). Better to just set people's expectations according to the most demanding scenarios from the outset, and not disappoint them from that point.

Excellent points.

Out of curiosity, how many hardware products do you know of that increased their (audio/sample/synth) track count down line from launch (without having promised such an increase when launching the product) ?

Maybe Akai? But you're right, few if any.

Come to think of it, if each "drum" can be played chromatically, as they can in MPC and Maschine, then 4 parts won't be too bad.

Akai most definitely did.

[SLiC]

Akia is pretty much the gold standard for updates on existing hardware, OS3 is case in point. AKAI has a huge advantage in this that pretty much all of their hardware benefits from any OS change or new plugin!

Elektron used to be pretty good but they have so many devices now that significant firmware updates seem far less often, same with TE and the OP1...use to be regular cools stuff, now its all about the 'next' hardware they can sell

To get back on topic (and as a PUSH 3 SA owner) I would bet my house on MOVE have regular and substantial updates...

[Uncle E]

For this reason, would've been nice if Move were just a shrunken down Push 3 Standalone, using the same firmware.

[Funky40]

Yes. The Drum Rack is a container that can host instruments per pad (per note). Move’s Drum Racks load the new Drum Sampler, per pad.

Note: Drum Racks in Move contain the Drum Sampler instrument, introduced in Live 12.1. If you open a Move Set that contains Drums presets in Live 11 or a version of Live 12 earlier than 12.1, Drum Sampler will be converted to Simpler. This can cause Sets to sound different in Live, especially if Drum Sampler’s playback effects were used in the Move Set.

Great ! Much Thanks !


one more Q:
the encoders are mapped to the parameters in Drum-Rack. Which ones are those ?


edit:
vs. the manual: here is a list, no mention what´s mapped to the HW controls vs. doing P-locks.
P-locking being my point

https://www.ableton.com/en/move/manual/ ... um-sampler