Alternatives to ShareIt/MyCommerce/Digital River

[grujicd]

It just occurred to me that maybe DR did not want it to end this way.
...

Maybe they layed off the wrong guys.Maybe they kept a few sales guys in suits but layed off the software engineers that kept the system working.

Or maybe a disgruntled software guy threw a spanner in the works before leaving.

It's possible that disgruntled software guy didn't turn off automatic refunds (I still don't know whether they work).

But another theory is also possible. Barry L. Kasoff doesn't only deal with shutting down business. As listed on his company site, they also restructure, etc. So maybe his idea was not to bankrupt DR, after all DR Gmbh was bringing in 5-6M per year according to the latest financial reports we have. Barry's modus operandi is probably to lay off anyone that can, squeeze suppliers with extra fees and increase payment terms to essentially get an interest-free cash infusion. Esentially like with new contract terms we got. And that "squeeze vendors dry" model might work in industries where suppliers depend on a company and can't leave just like that. Like if you're selling physical products to a supermarket chain, if that chain changes their terms you have to accept them, at least short term since it's hard, expensive and maybe even impossible to find alternative. If he doesn't understand our industry maybe he thought it would play the same way. He underestimated how quickly we can move to another payment processor. His gamble just turned wrong when we left platform en masse in October. That maybe explains pointing new director on 1st October, their plan backfired and now they have to switch to "steal" mode, while attempting to not get criminally liable doing so.

[IaES]

. . .
It's possible that disgruntled software guy didn't turn off automatic refunds (I still don't know whether they work).
. . .

It seems that anyone who paid with PayPal gets their refund almost immediately. I've had a couple of buyers contacting me with copies of the PayPal refund mail asking why they just got refunded. Buyers who paid with card are getting the refund email with the credit note but, so far, haven't heard from anyone that they actually got the money yet. Can take a few days and some likely wait till their next statement which could be up to a month before I can talk to them about buying again.

I've setup a Coupon so those people can buy the licence at a lower price.

Some of my buyers are regular in that they purchase many licences over the years. They'll be more than happy to buy again. Other people who only bought one but also had tech support from me they'll probably buy again because we have that relationship. But around 50% of the refunds I made might never come back. But at least DR never got the money.

[OliverDocklight]

@OliverDocklight
- is it ok to make in our blog article link to yours? I would like to highlight to our customers that we are not only vendor impacted.

Sorry, I meant OliverDocklight

Hi, DrOli, yes, of course, please feel free to use our news posts as a reference.

This is the permanent link
Keeping the Docklights on - ecommerce platform MyCommerce (Digital River) in turmoil


Oliver

[Tone2 Synthesizers]

[IaES]

For anyone that doesn't read German it says that DR Inc (Delaware USA) has a 100Million dollar loan that has to be repaid by January 2025. The German company DR GmbH is guarantor for that loan meaning DR GmbH has to pay the loan if DR USA can't pay it. But it goes on to say that they don't expect it to be a problem and that DR USA will be able to refinance the loan before it's due and DR GmbH should not be required to 'step up to the plate'.

The second paragraph talks about an agreement between "DR GmbH" and "DR Holding GmbH" where profits from DR GmbH are automatically syphoned off to DR Holding GmbH.

What do I take from that?

Basically all these other DR companies are a way to get profits out of Germany into Ireland where the business taxes are lower.

But they talk about "profits". The money they owe us can't be classed as profits so should not be sent to DR Holding anyway. Although the comment from the new DR boss saying that he does not consider the debt to us to be legally binding anyway so maybe he does class that as profit in which case all our money is long gone.

[OliverDocklight]

..
we refunded last week all orders manually in the cp portal for the unpaid timeframe
A day later we received the confirmations from dr and also the first confirmations copies
from customers asking for reasons.
...
Holger
www.ibexpert.com
..

just FYI Holger, on LinkedIn I read some recommendations about - how did they put it? - "not taking the path guided by emotions, and issue cancellations, because then DR could claim damages".

But I strongly disagree (and others too). IMHO what you, Holger, describe, is your responsibility as a business owner for damage control. As a German business we looked closely at the DR "due dilligence" demands and the PDF form that came with it. It had absurd requests for company internals, all required in English language, but lacked the basic requirement to make it a contract: An actual entity that is your contractual partner. It just says "Digital River". No GmbH, no address, nothing - I cannot see how any business like us could possibly comply and sign such a piece of paper. How can you NOT suspect fraud?

And for a sale canceled, I do not see damage on the DR side that is not covered by this mountain of money from unpaid digital goods that DR sits on. (if they have not already diverted it.).
Again, our Statement to our Docklight customers concerning DR

Oliver

[grujicd]

Oliver, can you link that discussion on Linkein, as it's hard to find anything there?

In my opinion, refunds are a regular thing and should not be treated in any way as damaging to any party.
Chargebacks on the other hand can harm the merchant account, by introducing fees and getting their merchant account revoked if some threshold is reached. Chargeback should be only used for unauthorized transactions, and this should not be the case. So if you ask your user to ask for chargeback from their bank, there could be damages involved for DR.

So this all might be a confusion between refund and chargeback, which should not be the same thing.

[IaES]

If we send a buyer to complete his payment via DR then DR is responsible for sales related support. Answering questions about the payment. generating invoices. maybe get download links and copies of invoice etc. The buyer should be able to expect that service from DR to continue for a reasonable length of time. But is DR in a position to offer that service to the buyer? Next month. Next year? Are we not duty bound to cancel the order and refund the buyer if we believe that the buyer will not get the service he paid for?

Also what damages have DR suffered? They already killed their own reputation. We didn't damage that. As for monetary damages. Well I've refunded customers and DR can bill me for his fees and support costs and I'll likely pay it because the last thing I want is this to drag this out any longer than necessary. But I can't see why there should be any other 'Damages'.

[yps]

The second paragraph talks about an agreement between "DR GmbH" and "DR Holding GmbH" where profits from DR GmbH are automatically syphoned off to DR Holding GmbH.

Having a proft transfer agreement between an (operational/subsidiary) company and its holding company is very common. It also means that the holding company must compensate for all losses of the subsidiary. And, as far as I'm aware, it might also be liable in case the subsidiary becomes insolvent.

Unfortunately we neither have access to the recent reports for Digital River Holding GmbH, nor the transfer agreement, nor can we see who the owner is, because the publically available online archive only goes back to 2007, and the holding was already established in 2003.

Can someone please go to Amtsgericht Köln and grab a copy?

[DrOli]

Looking at how this evolves I see following (I really hope that i am wrong but...):

1. We do nothing, accept hope that all will be good, and then, most likely loose all m-o-n-e-y or
2. We trigger refunds and ask customers to buy again (I would assume that majority will buy again as they'll get credit notes (and hopefully m-o-n-e-y)) and, probably, we are going to be charged by DR for their commision. Of course, we can challenge that due to lost businesses, our credibility for asking for refunds due to the way how they work, maybe, even breach of contract with all consequencies based on what they are doing (or not doing).

Somehow, with all non-existant communication from DR, I doubt that waiting will bring anything but option 1 and, I personally like to, at least, try to control my destiny.

[Christian67587]

An important thing is that it looks like Paypal refunds go through (as they still have money on their Paypal account).
And credit card refunds may not go through. Maybe the bank account is empty?
Customers gets email, but no money.
Can someone confirm?

[7tltd]

I'm sorry to ask again, but did someone consider to refund even before 1st July 2024?

DR is done as payment provider. Nobody wants make business with them anymore. Kasoff tried exit scam. Why not cash him out as long as possible? Customers are happy with the unexpected financial blessing and kASoff gets nothing.

[grujicd]

That would be theft. We just want what's legally ours, not steal anything, even from a thief himself.

[IaES]

That would be theft. We just want what's legally ours, not steal anything, even from a thief himself.

I wouldn't say it's theft. In a way the buyer in May and June still has a right to expect to receive the sales related service he paid for.

But I don't want to drag any more customers in to this mess. I'm not 100% sure refunding was the correct action anyway especially if the refunds don't actually go through. The buyer now has a credit note in his hand that he has to put into his accounting system and might never get paid that credit.

[DrOli]

But I don't want to drag any more customers in to this mess. I'm not 100% sure refunding was the correct action anyway especially if the refunds don't actually go through. The buyer now has a credit note in his hand that he has to put into his accounting system and might never get paid that credit.

This is scary part, as my customers confirmed credit note so I asked them to wait to see if they'll receive m-o-n-e-y before ordering again. What will happen if they do not receive money? Credit note is from DR which is probably putting us from hook but still I am curious how we are going to be impacted if money does not come.