Reason 13 Announced- Sequencer updated!

[Jac459]

[ I totally agree with you.

Since I moved back (2.5 on) exclusively to Reason (Ableton for almost 2 decades and 3+ years Bitwig), my productivity and creativity jumped to a new level.

Awesome environment.
Reaktor is an old companion of mine and it’s the only “outsider” in the mix.

Whaou... I am quite surprised to see a move in this direction instead of the other but good for reason studios... I don't want them to bankrupt....

[Biscotto]

I wonder if I’m now obligated to detail exactly to what I was agreeing to…
But nice for you to take the case for free.

Nah - just choose more wisely who you're agreeing with.

Get lost. Thank you.

[Biscotto]

[ I totally agree with you.

Since I moved back (2.5 on) exclusively to Reason (Ableton for almost 2 decades and 3+ years Bitwig), my productivity and creativity jumped to a new level.

Awesome environment.
Reaktor is an old companion of mine and it’s the only “outsider” in the mix.

Whaou... I am quite surprised to see a move in this direction instead of the other but good for reason studios... I don't want them to bankrupt....

Just tools for the right moment.

[Jac459]

I get the impression that you are not that proficient with Reason, as everything you mention above is among the simple things you can do in Reason. You can do way more complex things, and just as easy.

Well you may be right but it only proves my point then... I spent years (decades) with Reason of intensive usage. If I discover now that sidechaining was not done the proper way. It only shows how clumsy the workflow is.

But please educate me.

In order to have a chance to do the type of side chaining I am talking about (open a filter for example), you need an envelope follower.
The only envelop follower I know (which is quite crappy) in reason is in fact using sweeper. Now using a feature of a device that is not built for that and not even advertised like that is what I call clumsy.

Now if I want to side chain multiple parts from that envelop follower, I will need a CV utility to multiply the number of outputs.

Basically I will take 1-2 minutes to do what I can do in 10 sec in Bitwig.

(Finally they created a sidechain utility which is slightly better but not quite there)

Some people need a tool for that, others know just how to do it with the old hardware methods

Please share your experience then.
Because the example you shared with the compressor is limited, nothing fancy and nothing near what can be done with proper sidechaining tool, I guess you have other techniques in mind.

[jens]

Get lost. Thank you.

I won't - I would say "no you f**k off instead", but honestly speaking I don't care.

While I sometimes enjoy making fun of random idiots like the next guy, truth is I get bored of it soon enough and then I usually couln't care less whether they post dumb crap or not.

[Jac459]

[ I totally agree with you.

Since I moved back (2.5 on) exclusively to Reason (Ableton for almost 2 decades and 3+ years Bitwig), my productivity and creativity jumped to a new level.

Awesome environment.
Reaktor is an old companion of mine and it’s the only “outsider” in the mix.

Whaou... I am quite surprised to see a move in this direction instead of the other but good for reason studios... I don't want them to bankrupt....

Just tools for the right moment.

agreed, sometimes changing tools and perspective is just what is needed.

[Biscotto]

[ I totally agree with you.

Since I moved back (2.5 on) exclusively to Reason (Ableton for almost 2 decades and 3+ years Bitwig), my productivity and creativity jumped to a new level.

Awesome environment.
Reaktor is an old companion of mine and it’s the only “outsider” in the mix.

Whaou... I am quite surprised to see a move in this direction instead of the other but good for reason studios... I don't want them to bankrupt....

Just tools for the right moment.

agreed, sometimes changing tools and perspective is just what is needed.

Most of my creations are done on a real piano. Digital production is fun but the piano is my life’s journey since I was 5 and now I’m close to retirement.
Wonderful experiences.

[jens]

The only envelop follower I know (which is quite crappy) in reason is in fact using sweeper.

Pulsar includes an envelope-follower - and of course nothing stops you from packing it in a Combinator with a couple of Spiders.

[Jac459]

The only envelop follower I know (which is quite crappy) in reason is in fact using sweeper.

Pulsar includes an envelope-follower - and of course nothing stops you from packing it in a Combinator with a couple of Spiders.

That's true... I could use a combinator... But Pulsar ??? I don't remember pulsar having any audio input... How do you do that ?

[jens]

How do you do that ?

(E.g. - depending on what exactly you want to do) by using a track's CV OUT...
(which basically is already an envelope-follower, just without any envelope-controls)

[Jac459]

How do you do that ?

(E.g. - depending on what exactly you want to do) by using a track's CV OUT...
(which basically is already an envelope-follower, just without any envelope-controls)

Sorry Jens, I appreciate your effort to help me but I am even more confused hehe.

What I want to do to be clear is to have an envelop follower (not an envelop generator) usable to modulate the parameter of another channel. For example, to have the transient of a bassline, modulate the filter cutoff of another channel (for example a pad).

To do that I need an envelop follower.

I tried to search for a track CV Out but I only find GATE Out (which is not what I want). No CV.
The only way to convert audio to CV that I know is through devices like Sweeper or pulveriser (which in not very ideal in my view).

[LaLivre]

Does anyone have a tipp how to create an autopan effect in Reason (except the one with flipping the rack around and put the cable into mixerchannels pan CV)?

That's super easy ('fraid you need to flip the Rack though after all):

load an instance of Pulsar, hit tab, right click one of the CV outs of one of both LFOs, select the track you want to autopan and tick "Pan CV In" - done.

Now all you have to do is flip to the front again and tweak the LFO to your heart's content.

Thanks!

[crimsonwarlock]

But please educate me.

Indeed side-chaining a compressor is the basics. But most compressors in Reason have a CV-out signal that is basically an envelope follower. Even the compressor that sits in every mixer channel has this CV-out. By the way, this also illustrates what Reason can do: try to get that signal from a VST compressor and link it to anything.

This is what I meant by understanding how things interact and can be connected. If you know how to setup a basic side-chain with a compressor, you can then automate anything and everything with that signal.

There are also envelope follower REs, some even free, that can do a lot more.

[Jac459]

But please educate me.

Indeed side-chaining a compressor is the basics. But most compressors in Reason have a CV-out signal that is basically an envelope follower. Even the compressor that sits in every mixer channel has this CV-out. By the way, this also illustrates what Reason can do: try to get that signal from a VST compressor and link it to anything.

This is what I meant by understanding how things interact and can be connected. If you know how to setup a basic side-chain with a compressor, you can then automate anything and everything with that signal.

There are also envelope follower REs, some even free, that can do a lot more.

Well, thanks for answering and taking the time to explain. Actually I never realised that the compressor has a CV out... But it remains less powerful than Sweeper. As per my knowledge, Sweeper is the only device that has a visual feedback of the sound (even if arguably not very usable).

And it is as bit as clumsy as I thought it was.

I know everybody should be able to make music "closed eyes", "trust your ears" and all that big principles. But that is only partially true. Having a precise visual feedback can be useful in many ways. Like when you try to gently compress or limit a peak in a way that you want as little audible as possible.

Another thing is that most of the time, you don't want to side chain the full sound. For a kick you may want to get only the 300-1000hz to capture only the transient, or on the contrary, you will get the lower band on an arpeggiated pluck just to be sure you trigger your side chain only when the melody goes in a certain way, that's a pretty basic scenario.

That is not easy to do in reason (at least until 13). You need to create a // channel, you need to EQ the sound, etc. etc. etc.... Spider audio is your friend as well as a ton of cables...

And again that is to be compared to (Bitwig example): clicking the + button on the modulator pane of the device I want to modulate. Search for Audio Side Chain (or Envelop follower). Then I access a list of the audio output I want to side chain. I choose the frequency range I want to listen to. I chose the Attack, the release, and the parameter I want to modulate and done... 20 seconds.

It is much faster, much simpler (I don't need to have prior knowledge because I don't need to "know" for example that this compressor or Sweeper has envelop follower. I just type "envelop follower and I have it) and it is also much much much more flexible.
Let's say I want to modulate the attack of the attack of my envelop follower with an LFO. I just click the "+", I type "LFO" and boom, I can modulate anything I want. In Reason, you can't. Even if you remember that LFO is called Pulsar, you won't be able to plug it to your envelop follower because it is limited. You can just do automation... And many many parameters are like that.

So again, don't get me wrong, I still think that:
- reason is powerful enough to do any kind of great music,
- reason is fun,
- reason replication of hardware is interesting and can help people coming from hardware.

But still I think that reason is loosing ground compared to other "best in class" DAWs.

I am pretty sure that in many many use cases similar to the "side chaining" ones, most other DAWs will come with a system that
- needs less clicks,
- needs less knowledge of shortcuts, less knowledge about the DAW intricacies (like the fact that Sweeper is the envelop follower of choice) because the global logic is simpler and consistent across the whole DAW and
- is more flexible.
So in one word, simply much more powerful.

Now I clearly understand the appeal of having a system which is autonomous, "VST Free" like you have. It is elegant and have a certain appeal. Would you make better job or music on another DAW? Probably not.
But

Is it sufficient for Reason to get more clients or even maintain there client base ????

Clearly not in my opinion.

[liquidsound]

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