Reason 13.1 Update feature discussion

[VOODOO U]

Reason had a good thing going had they stuck to their guns.
No vst support, just Rack Extensions and Refills.
Only one problem, not enough developers worth a dime were willing to tag along.
And for those that did tag along (like Korg), they came up with subpar extensions.
Let's face it, propellerheads were never going to get a Massive rack extension.
Or any Arturia rack extension.
Unfortunately - because Thor and Subtractor just don't cut it versus said VSTs.

[two_tone]

I like Reason best when it commits to the hardware inside the box paradigm. It feels more like a giant modular system more than a DAW.

I love it for that kind of thing. It’s just a very fun program to use.

As an all purpose daw it’s just about functional and wouldn’t see it as my daily driver.

Agreed, for professional drudgery you'll want to learn Logic for editing midi or RX + PT/cubase/reaper for editing and mixing audio. Reason excels as a creative environment and is indeed "a very fun program to use" until you need to bring an idea to fruition, then it's gonna suck to the point you'll be asking "really?" over and over again the first time you try to finish a project.

The crazy thing is that modernizing the sequencer and learning from the feedback they get from people who actually use their product in general is the easy part and the obvious path to commercial redemption and long term financial viability. The current management is probably not going to do it anyway because that would mean admitting they were wrong. Burning down the thing you're in charge of rather than admitting fault is par for the course whether it's a small software firm or an entire society.

[two_tone]

Also back enjoying Reason at 13.1. Nothing else is as much fun to use. Other DAWs do more, just took me 20 years to work out I don’t need/use that stuff!

It's true that not many features are needed to make good music. The important thing is that the essential features meet high standards and work good in the context of making music. I feel this is something that was a strength of earlier versions of Reason and has been lost since the name change. Unfortunately, by now one has to hope that they at least don't break what works by adding some pseudo feature just to have a selling point for a future update.

Basically, my impression is that all what is good about Reason is the result of development prior to the name change and that the actual development team feeds off of that (and the problem of changing a DAW after putting substantial time into learning and mastering it), not the work they are doing.

Yes, unfortunately I think your assessment of the situation pretty much nails it.

Exactly but this situation started ten or fifteen years ago, what you're seeing now is the userbase well and truly losing patience with the idiots in charge. It's all very representative of the state of our society in general (speaking as an american). We created a set of incentives decades ago that encourages putting the most greedy, stupid, and selfish person they can find in charge of everything. Shame that it ruined our favorite DAW along with the recorded and live music industries and pretty much everything else around us.

[two_tone]

it makes many simple tasks a nightmare to do...

Like what?

From the top of my mind, trying to paint notes in a Midi clip and then alter their velocity was always insanely PITTA for me when it comes to Reason piano roll editor. Piano roll in Reason is like Windows 3.11.

FWIW Reason still doesn't even have MIDI loop-recording.

IKR, despite having one of the best audio comping systems around since Record launched...

[kraster]

I feel people are being ridiculously harsh on Reason.

I, for one, love it BECAUSE it's different. I like the things it does differently to other DAWs. It's its own thing. Always has been.

It has its roots in pre VST virtual instruments and continues to forge that path.

For me Reason is all about the players and the synths and coming up with more generative/procedural music than something where editing and mixing features. As I said before, more like a giant modular sequencing environment.

Even then Reason is hardly unable to do the more bread an butter stuff. It may not be as elegant as other DAWs in that regard but it's perfectly capable of doing most things in its current state.

[LaLivre]

Thats just nonsense you're writing here, it is very necessary to be harsh because it is just not good to ignore your long time users for ages with some of the most basic feature requests even Garage Band has. And then Propellerheads business went down and they have to change name and promote other DAWs that support Reason as a plugin. So they developed the plugin to cover up and solve all the housemade problems this unbelievable bad DAW product management caused themselves by ignoring all of the basic customer requests for years (until today). Now it seems that the plugin "cash cow" is over and so they try to go back to their DAW marketing, but even now this management seems not able at all to draw the simplest conclusions and finally start working properly.

It's an unpredictable back and forth without any commitment to close customers ... long time customers who would then consequently promote their DAW more.

[kraster]

Thats just nonsense you're writing here, it is very necessary to be harsh because it is just not good to ignore your long time users for ages with some of the most basic feature requests even Garage Band has. And then Propellerheads business went down and they have to change name and promote other DAWs that support Reason as a plugin. So they developed the plugin to cover up and solve all the housemade problems this unbelievable bad DAW product management caused themselves by ignoring all of the basic customer requests for years (until today). Now it seems that the plugin "cash cow" is over and so they try to go back to their DAW marketing, but even now this management seems not able at all to draw the simplest conclusions and finally start working properly.

It's an unpredictable back and forth without any commitment to close customers ... long time customers who would then consequently promote their DAW more.

I've used Reason since version one and I've always seen it more as what I've described it as. A big virtual modular playground. The DAW aspects are a nice addition but the core attraction for me has always been the more modular part.

On every single DAW discussion it always devolves into a discussion about how every DAW should be exactly the same and have every feature imaginable. No thanks.

I don't care that a certain DAW doesn't have X feature. I use software because of how it works and not how it doesn't work. I think Reason's overall commitment to the virtualisation of real world hardware is still attractive to me. It just clicks with me because that's where I come from.

I like differences. My three main DAWS are Pro Tools for work (Editing, recording live instruments and mixing), Ableton for song construction and Reason for sequencing, modular synthesis.

They all bring something different to the table.

But if I only had reason to work with I'd still be able to make music with it.

[crimsonwarlock]

I've used Reason since version one and I've always seen it more as what I've described it as. A big virtual modular playground. The DAW aspects are a nice addition but the core attraction for me has always been the more modular part.

Nice to see someone else pointing at the modular aspect of Reason as an important distinction

I don't care that a certain DAW doesn't have X feature. I use software because of how it works and not how it doesn't work.

Totally agree. Like I said here before, I choose software for what it currently can do, not because of some pipe-dream future functionality that might or might not get implemented.

I think Reason's overall commitment to the virtualisation of real world hardware is still attractive to me. It just clicks with me because that's where I come from.

Beware, you are seemingly not allowed to point to previous experience as a motivation to use Reason

But if I only had reason to work with I'd still be able to make music with it.

I do have only Reason to work with (by choice) and am perfectly able to compose, produce, mix, and master my music with it

[SebAV]

Because Reason is a never ending promise by design

Going from the endless feature requests on literary every DAWs user-forum, that goes for every DAW

Besides that, getting something because there is some 'promise' it will have or do something in the future, is stupid. I get things for what they can do right now, and for me Reason is in that category.

Yes, you’re right. But Reason is different because it’s « all you need ». I’ve started using Reason at version 1 and it was obvious by design that it was made to evolve : a virtual rack with so few « expanders » was to be expanded ! And that’s what it did. At a very slow pace for the 10+ first years of its Life. When this « virtual rack » is « full » ? I don’t know. I’ve recently come back to Reason (from v6.5 to RRP v12 when HD graphics came) and I’m currently trying subscription for 1$. What a lot of options now ! And since I’ve got some vst and a DAW, a lot if not everything is covered.
Perhaps the promise has come to an end.

[bjm4tt]

Why are people here who don't want to discuss the new features in 13.1?

5 pages in and this is still a validation question.

[SebAV]

There’s nothing to discuss : a note filter and a random note generator. Just look at REs that do something similar or any Live tutorial from last years. For browser new features, just look at what people were saying when 13 was released.

[bjm4tt]

I was being sarcastic.

Anyway, "back" to topic: I appreciate the new tagging system in the browser, the "hidden" tag pretty much covers what I was missing.

What I'm still missing sometimes is the standard bypass/on/off switch from the Gain tool. Once it's in the signal path, it can't be bypassed, only if it's inside a combi. Both the stereo tool and the sidechain tool has it, poor gain tool was forgotten.

[Cavey Arrgh]

I was being sarcastic.

Anyway, "back" to topic: I appreciate the new tagging system in the browser, the "hidden" tag pretty much covers what I was missing.

What I'm still missing sometimes is the standard bypass/on/off switch from the Gain tool. Once it's in the signal path, it can't be bypassed, only if it's inside a combi. Both the stereo tool and the sidechain tool has it, poor gain tool was forgotten.

Kilohearts' "Gain" RE plug is free and has the bypass switch.

[bjm4tt]

I was being sarcastic.

Anyway, "back" to topic: I appreciate the new tagging system in the browser, the "hidden" tag pretty much covers what I was missing.

What I'm still missing sometimes is the standard bypass/on/off switch from the Gain tool. Once it's in the signal path, it can't be bypassed, only if it's inside a combi. Both the stereo tool and the sidechain tool has it, poor gain tool was forgotten.

Kilohearts' "Gain" RE plug is free and has the bypass switch.

Thank you, appreciate the suggestion! I got the whole KHs bundle and Selig Gain too, so I'm covered, I was just wondering about the reasoning. Most of the utility devices don't have bypass except Combi, so at least it's consistent.

[kraster]

There’s nothing to discuss : a note filter and a random note generator. Just look at REs that do something similar or any Live tutorial from last years. For browser new features, just look at what people were saying when 13 was released.

The new generators are brilliant. Amazing for generative stuff.

One of the cool features is that you can route the "rejected notes" CV & Gate from the probability and conditional paramaters to another source.

You can also drive the random generator with another random generator so you could say have a simple pattern routed to the first random generator at a slow speed and have a small pitch range. The CV output of that can be routed to the another random generator's Pitch offset and followed by a Scales and chords and that routed to a synth.

There may be other things REs can do it but there's something to be said for these things coming from the same design team. They all work really well together.

The fact that you can host all these player configurations in any DAW and route the output to MIDI is also great. Something like Pro Tools is severely lacking in these kinds of things.