Let‘s speculate about 6.0

[perpetual3]

I think it depends on how you do it, and the direction.

I look at it as I prefer someone who is hopelessly positive over someone that is hopelessly negative.

Also the way they then project these ideas; aggressive displays on either front are not good, but the negative side always seem a bit more aggressive to me.

What I do think though is when you get a few very negative forum users (mostly being egged on by the chief disrupter) then others (shrinking violets, fanboys, workerati, snowflakes, defenders of the faith, whatever derogatory term is being used) don't bother coming anymore.

Amen

[The Mantra]

I've never felt like this wasn't a safe place to criticize Bitwig.

I doubt there's anybody here who hasn't complained about something or another. As long as you're not an obnoxious prick you can pretty much complain as much as you want.

One of my pet peeves is people who use the guise of a beleaguered truth teller as an excuse to be disrespectful.

[machinesworking]

I think it depends on how you do it, and the direction.

I look at it as I prefer someone who is hopelessly positive over someone that is hopelessly negative.

Also the way they then project these ideas; aggressive displays on either front are not good, but the negative side always seem a bit more aggressive to me.

What I do think though is when you get a few very negative forum users (mostly being egged on by the chief disrupter) then others (shrinking violets, fanboys, workerati, snowflakes, defenders of the faith, whatever derogatory term is being used) don't bother coming anymore.

IMO is always a mixed bag. Overtly positive people can gloss over issues that you might have, or even actively dismiss criticism and concerns that don’t fit their way of working. In other words there is 100% such a thing as toxic positivity, we literally would probably not had the punk movement if the hippies hadn’t been so annoying that way.

There is room for extremists of both types to dirty the water.

[pdxindy]

I look at it as I prefer someone who is hopelessly positive over someone that is hopelessly negative.

I suppose, if it were a thing... however, the first category doesn't even exist.

The range doesn't swing from one extreme to the other. It starts roughly in the middle and goes way off into the negative. It's way skewed in one direction.

[machinesworking]

I look at it as I prefer someone who is hopelessly positive over someone that is hopelessly negative.

I suppose, if it were a thing... however, the first category doesn't even exist.

The range doesn't swing from one extreme to the other. It starts roughly in the middle and goes way off into the negative. It's way skewed in one direction.

Do you truly think some people don’t get completely enamored with a product and refuse to take any criticism at all of it???

I mean objectively that’s just delusional logically, but you do you I guess?

[cfernn]

In any case, to his point, he is right that there is a lot to be concerned about with Bitwig. You have to be blind not to see and feel something is off. Very low energy vibe coming from them the last few years with many issues left unresolved, misaligned features and lack of customer focus. A lot of people know this is the case, whether it is convenient or not.

Thank you. I love BW and will continue to follow their progress, but the last few years made me jump ship.

I noticed a shift after the spectral suite debacle. The backlash probably f’d up their business model. Those plugins should have remained as paid add-ons, generating support and resources for the more important quality of life updates.

Anyways…. Will still use BW as a sketchpad. Hopefully the next version will overdeliver (like the latest Ableton upd). They gotta be feeling the heat.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

In any case, to his point, he is right that there is a lot to be concerned about with Bitwig. You have to be blind not to see and feel something is off. Very low energy vibe coming from them the last few years with many issues left unresolved, misaligned features and lack of customer focus. A lot of people know this is the case, whether it is convenient or not.

Thank you. I love BW and will continue to follow their progress, but the last few years made me jump ship.

I noticed a shift after the spectral suite debacle. The backlash probably f’d up their business model. Those plugins should have remained as paid add-ons, generating support and resources for the more important quality of life updates.

I think it has more to do with the niche-strategy biting them in the tail. They should have established a solid foundation of musicians first, not of technologists only interested in fancy technical solutions.
It's not that we didn't asked them in the beginning.

Anyways…. Will still use BW as a sketchpad. Hopefully the next version will overdeliver (like the latest Ableton upd). They gotta be feeling the heat.

Funny you use it as scratchpad, 3 weeks ago I reinstalled BS because my daughter used my laptop with BS for jotting musical ideas ( I already didn't use it anymore) way back.
She moved to Protools now, but was curious about her old scribblings.

Anyway, when she is finished...

[pdxindy]

I suppose, if it were a thing... however, the first category doesn't even exist.

The range doesn't swing from one extreme to the other. It starts roughly in the middle and goes way off into the negative. It's way skewed in one direction.

Do you truly think some people don’t get completely enamored with a product and refuse to take any criticism at all of it???

I mean objectively that’s just delusional logically, but you do you I guess?

I'm only referring to my observations in this forum, not making a generalized statement about all users everywhere.

In my time here in this forum, I don't recall any regular posters who fit your description and who would be incapable of recognizing that Bitwig has its flaws and weaknesses.

Your reply demonstrates how far things are skewed to the negative. I simply state my observations and you immediately go to calling me delusional.

The actual Defenders of the Faith are those defending the Faith of Negativity. They are swift to attack when someone isn't part of the club.

You already stated that you prefer drinking dirty water. However, I'll take clean water and clear air. From my point of view, that is a neutral baseline.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

so,
all the people banned are a consistent club and the people asking for those bans aren't a group of individuals lining up behind the "Defenders" thinking they are the Real users of Bitwig, and need to teach everybody else a lesson.
ok.

[BobDog]

That's a pretty distorted view you have there!

All I know if I go to a bar for a drink and there is always someone there shouting their mouth out about how shit the bar is and arguing and being abusive to anyone that says differently then I stop going to the bar and hope the bugger gets banned!

Not sure if that makes me a "Real user of Bitwig", just someone with common sense maybe.

[SpaceCadetOnLeave]

That's a pretty distorted view you have there!

and there's the passive aggression again... Heating up? Taking your spot in the circle? are you?

Anyways...
It's not about the end of the escalation, it's about how it starts and evolves.
There is reason why it ends with shouting, often there is a circle of Defanders (tm) around a user with a question or frustration (or whatever, often adorned with a language-barrier of some sort) ridiculing the user. As being a nonbeliever; mostly with the "if you don't like it, switch to another DAW" kind of brainpower.

Most users wisely shrug their shoulders and move along, away from KVR Bitwig, realizing "the circle" are a bunch of forum dwellers and not really interesting, maybe other than sometimes being an easy manual. ( bit of a pre-AI kind of thing, but worse, AI doesn't have an attitude. Not yet anyway .)

The conflict is:
the "shouters" want to be heard and treated seriously, some don't give in and step up, (equally stupid, btw, but a bit more understandable)
- and -
the Real users of Bitwig think(!) they can earn respect and status in a forum with showing off having read the manual or construct quasi intelligent one liners or rigorously defend the flaws of the software and/or devs/company (! ), sometimes desperately trying to be funny for the circle. (creepy)

*shrugging shoulders*

[BobDog]

That was not passive aggression, I think you seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder, maybe peoples words don't get past it?

Good to see you taking on the vroteg mantle though, good luck with that...

[muzicxs]

That's a pretty distorted view you have there!

and there's the passive aggression again... Heating up? Taking your spot in the circle? are you?

How would you describe your own reaction here?

[pdxindy]

so,
all the people banned are a consistent club

Only in the sense of being in the club of the banned. Obviously they are each their own unique person, but that is not relevant here.

If someone goes to their job and constantly complains and yells at people, they will quickly be fired. Maybe that person needs a support group for anger issues or grief, but the workplace isn't it.

Same here, this is a forum about Bitwig, not a support group.

[_leras]

Do you truly think some people don’t get completely enamored with a product and refuse to take any criticism at all of it???

I mean objectively that’s just delusional logically, but you do you I guess?

I haven't seen that here. I think that the people who seem to like Bitwig the most, or are most knowledgeable and share their knowledge also have feedback and sometimes even gripes.

I think the difference is there isnt hyperbole and blowing small things into end of the world issues.

I think you'll find most of that group of people have emailed ideas to Bitwig support multiple times, and are not short of suggestions, ideas and things they think would improvement.

I'd say it's framed in a more measured and positive way. This is probably because this group are actively using Bitwig to make music and enjoying using it as it is.

I can't speak for other people but I really don't have any blockers or show stoppers in Bitwig. The only impediments I have when making music in Bitwig come from me.

Now... The negative group... From what I see the same gripes are made repeatedly and loudly. And it seems that small issues are presented as huge issues that prevent any music to be made.

It's not a high traffic forum, so it only takes a few people to turn the conversation from useful and well meaning into a detailed sh1tshow, which is no good for anyone, now or in the future.