Zebra 3 and Zebra Legacy

[DrGonzo]

I might add, there's a difference between recent developments of our competitors and what we're doing with Zebra 3. I'll be up front and say that I have no idea if this means anything, business-wise or not, but in my mind I'm hopeful for the long term game.

Is Zebra3 becoming that Berlin Modular project you were talking about long time ago, or is that a project still on the horizon?

[coroknight]

Will Zebra 3 be able to do FM? I’m wondering since Zebra 3 wavetables are curve-based (instead of sample-based) if they are capable of far higher resolution and FM that’s competitive with FM8?

It’s strange how 90% of synths with supposed FM capabilities really don’t sound good at all despite FM8 coming out almost 20 years ago.

This comment was inspired by Serum 2, which technically has FM but doesn’t really sound good at all IMO.

[Urs]

Zebra 3, like Zebra 2, is going to have dedicated FM Oscillators. There's a chance we'll add FM to the Curve based oscillators, too, but I'm a bit concerned about CPU usage there, so evaluating this is currently not a priority. The dedicated FM Oscillators otoh are currently being fleshed out and will deliver a rather expanded range of FM options over FMOs in Zebra 2.

[carrieres]

Wonderful

[coroknight]

Zebra 3, like Zebra 2, is going to have dedicated FM Oscillators. There's a chance we'll add FM to the Curve based oscillators, too, but I'm a bit concerned about CPU usage there, so evaluating this is currently not a priority. The dedicated FM Oscillators otoh are currently being fleshed out and will deliver a rather expanded range of FM options over FMOs in Zebra 2.

Exciting! As cool as it would be to FM the curve oscillators I’d be happy if the the FM modules were high quality and offered a variety of waveforms to choose from.

Not doubting Zebra 3 quality btw, just saying I’ve been disappointed by a lot of FM synths.

Oddly enough one of the best sounding FM synths I’ve heard recently is VCV Rack with the Bogaudio FM-OP modules. I think they do something like 8x oversampling internally to make it sound so crisp.

[JoeLowery215]

Will Zebra 3 be able to do FM? I’m wondering since Zebra 3 wavetables are curve-based (instead of sample-based) if they are capable of far higher resolution and FM that’s competitive with FM8?

It’s strange how 90% of synths with supposed FM capabilities really don’t sound good at all despite FM8 coming out almost 20 years ago.

This comment was inspired by Serum 2, which technically has FM but doesn’t really sound good at all IMO.

I think Serum 2 has the labels wrong. I think FM (as in DX7) is really phase modulation but they label it PD (phase distortion)

The FM in serum 2 sounds like actual cross modulation to me (legit pitch modulation)

[JoeLowery215]

Zebra 3, like Zebra 2, is going to have dedicated FM Oscillators. There's a chance we'll add FM to the Curve based oscillators, too, but I'm a bit concerned about CPU usage there, so evaluating this is currently not a priority. The dedicated FM Oscillators otoh are currently being fleshed out and will deliver a rather expanded range of FM options over FMOs in Zebra 2.

Awesome! But isn’t DeltaX FM already?

[Urs]

Zebra 3, like Zebra 2, is going to have dedicated FM Oscillators. There's a chance we'll add FM to the Curve based oscillators, too, but I'm a bit concerned about CPU usage there, so evaluating this is currently not a priority. The dedicated FM Oscillators otoh are currently being fleshed out and will deliver a rather expanded range of FM options over FMOs in Zebra 2.

Awesome! But isn’t DeltaX FM already?

The OscFX mimic things like FM by constantly recording little snippets the size of a waveform with the actual effect applied. Those snippets are passed on to the actual oscillator, where they are used as waveforms and played back without any further processing. It kind of "bakes" the effect of FM into the waveform itself.

Note that in Zebra(lette) 3 the oscillator looks like one entity, but below the surface there are 4 separate modules: The Geometry module provides for the waveforms based on Curves. The two Osc Effect modules apply dynamic modifications to the geometry. The actual Oscillator takes the result and plays it back either as a wavetable or using a cluster of sine oscillators.

So in Zebra 3's OscFX the application of FM does not happen during playback in the oscillator but during waveform generation.

For many purposes this is the same as FM. For other purposes it is not. For instance, OscFX can not create inharmonic spectra. Therefore, the capability of FM to create inharmonic sounds such as bells does not work in OscFX. But then, OscFX can perform extreme FM without much or any aliasing.

It would certainly be possible to add any kind of FM (pitch modulation, frequency modulation, phase modulation...) to the oscillators themselves, but we currently think there are quite enough features to deal with right now, we'd rather like to finish the synth, look at it in a whole and maybe start some experiments later, and evaluate if we need/want to do this.

[JoeLowery215]

Zebra 3, like Zebra 2, is going to have dedicated FM Oscillators. There's a chance we'll add FM to the Curve based oscillators, too, but I'm a bit concerned about CPU usage there, so evaluating this is currently not a priority. The dedicated FM Oscillators otoh are currently being fleshed out and will deliver a rather expanded range of FM options over FMOs in Zebra 2.

Awesome! But isn’t DeltaX FM already?

The OscFX mimic things like FM by constantly recording little snippets the size of a waveform with the actual effect applied. Those snippets are passed on to the actual oscillator, where they are used as waveforms and played back without any further processing. It kind of "bakes" the effect of FM into the waveform itself.

Note that in Zebra(lette) 3 the oscillator looks like one entity, but below the surface there are 4 separate modules: The Geometry module provides for the waveforms based on Curves. The two Osc Effect modules apply dynamic modifications to the geometry. The actual Oscillator takes the result and plays it back either as a wavetable or using a cluster of sine oscillators.

So in Zebra 3's OscFX the application of FM does not happen during playback in the oscillator but during waveform generation.

For many purposes this is the same as FM. For other purposes it is not. For instance, OscFX can not create inharmonic spectra. Therefore, the capability of FM to create inharmonic sounds such as bells does not work in OscFX. But then, OscFX can perform extreme FM without much or any aliasing.

It would certainly be possible to add any kind of FM (pitch modulation, frequency modulation, phase modulation...) to the oscillators themselves, but we currently think there are quite enough features to deal with right now, we'd rather like to finish the synth, look at it in a whole and maybe start some experiments later, and evaluate if we need/want to do this.

Great response! This makes sense (as much as I can understand it!) haha.

So the FMO modules are real FM (where inharmonic sounds can really be created) DeltaX is more like…an FX as you say.

[Urs]

yep

[hollo]

This was a DEEP dive for most of us -hehe

[eclipse_soundlab]

can DeltaX have fundamental sine wave filtered out? (some small spectral HPF knob on the side perhaps)

[Urs]

You can filter it out in the next OscFX slot

[eclipse_soundlab]

I know, but i want that other slot for something else. If its not hard to program (idk about that im not into programming) and it will not eat as much CPU as another FX - it would be nice to put that in there.

[jtsterays]

With the new Z3 pic, it seems like you guys have dialed back the visuals - No waveform preview in the OSC mini module. Same for the LFO, unlike Hive's where you can see the phase position and polarity. I'm guessing the filter module is the same too, static icon instead of animated. Hoping that's just temporaly. I can see how it would get quite busy in complex patches, but at the same time, the educational benefit is quite big when learning new presets or revisiting old ones. I can look at a patch and understand it faster with the visuals.