Request to Purchase Repro's Effects Section Separately

[limitlesssss]

All Urs and team have to do is use the code that already exists and make it work outside of Repro's environment.

SMOP identified.

Except right after the part you quoted from me, I said:

I'm obviously not saying there is no work involved at all. Of course there's work involved, but boy is it worth it.

I never claimed/claim this needs zero effort. I said (still say), the code is already there, and sure it needs some work, but I think (at least in my opinion) it's worth it.

[limitlesssss]

All Urs and team have to do is use the code that already exists and make it work outside of Repro's environment.

SMOP identified.

This is the definition of SMOP in the link you shared:

The 1983 Jargon File describes an SMOP as follows:

SMOP (ess'em'oh'pee') noun.

An acronym for "a Small Matter Of Programming". A piece of program code, not yet written, whose anticipated length is significantly greater than its intellectual complexity.

This term is used to refer to a program that could obviously be written but is not worth the trouble. It is also used ironically to imply that a difficult problem can be easily solved because a program can be written to do it. The irony is that it is very clear that writing such a program will be a great deal of work.

Example: "It's easy to change a FORTRAN compiler to compile COBOL as well; it's just a small matter of programming."

The IBM Jargon Dictionary defines SMOP as:

SMOP (smop) n. Something quite possible, but requiring unavailable resources to achieve. "Why isn't that function available in the program?" − "It's just a Simple Matter Of Programming". (The implication being that, given a few person-centuries, all things are possible.) Also SMOUP (smoop), a Simple Matter Of Micro-Programming (if handwritten, using a Greek mu). See also how hard would it be.

In the above definition, it says:

A piece of program code, not yet written...

It is also used ironically to imply that a difficult problem can be easily solved because a program can be written to do it. The irony is that it is very clear that writing such a program will be a great deal of work.

Except this piece of code is already written as I've mentioned a few times. Even the GUI is already there. Sure it needs work to build a plug-in around it, but the device itself is already written.

Example: "It's easy to change a FORTRAN compiler to compile COBOL as well; it's just a small matter of programming."

Obviously this is an unfair example compared to what I'm asking for.

[whyterabbyt]

Except this piece of code is already written as I've mentioned a few times. Even the GUI is already there. Sure it needs work to build a plug-in around it, but the device itself is already written.

SMOP specifics identified.

Despite your 'mentioning it a few times' the code required to build a plugin, (and get what you call 'the device' to actually be an -independent- device) is not written.

Even the GUI is already there.

Woo.
I presume this means you think extracting the GUI handling code specific for one part of a device and turning it into the GUI handling code for an entire device is always trivial, yes? Just a small matter of programming, as it were?
Same for preset handling, audio IO, event and automation handling etc etc. All those small things, summing, in your mind, to an equally small thing.

[limitlesssss]

Except this piece of code is already written as I've mentioned a few times. Even the GUI is already there. Sure it needs work to build a plug-in around it, but the device itself is already written.

SMOP specifics identified.

Despite your 'mentioning it a few times' the code required to build a plugin, (and get what you call 'the device' to actually be an -independent- device) is not written.

Even the GUI is already there.

Woo.
I presume this means you think extracting the GUI handling code specific for one part of a device and turning it into the GUI handling code for an entire device is always trivial, yes? Just a small matter of programming, as it were?
Same for preset handling, audio IO, event and automation handling etc etc. All those small things, summing, in your mind, to an equally small thing.

I think I’ve already mentioned at least twice or maybe more that “of course there has to be additional code written”. I’m saying the core of the code is already there though, plus the GUI.

I don’t assume anything is trivial. I’m saying the end result is IMHO worth it.

[whyterabbyt]

I think I’ve already mentioned at least twice or maybe more that of course there has to be additional code written.

I think Ive already mentioned at least twice or maybe more that of course that that additional code is being passed of as a SMOP.

I’m saying the core of the code is already there plus the GUI.

Im saying that those are comparitively easy bits of building a plugin.

well, not the GUI code, but the graphical images and DSP code are

I don’t assume anything is trivial.

And yet you said

"All Urs and team have to do is use the code that already exists and make it work outside of Repro's environment. "

'all you have to do' is intrinsically trivialisation.

I’m saying the end result is IMHO worth it.

I doubt you're the expert on balancing that for Urs' business.

And Urs has already told you that repackaging the effects separately will eat into sales of those plugins that were spun off from them, eg Colour Copy and Satin, so you do know that he's evaluated whether its 'worth it' and decided it wasnt.

[zerocrossing]

It would also mean another project to make and support, no small feat

Sure, but the code is already there, and also this plug-in won't be free. So in my opinion, the effort is worth it.

The problem is, you don't understand what software development is, and how something that seems like no big deal to implement, is actually a very big deal and would require at least one engineer to work on it, maybe for months, and a QA/QC process to make sure it's ready for public consumption. This also means that there will be more support needed. That's not nothing. Is that something that would be profitable? Maybe, but there are an awful lot of people who bought Zebra HZ for the free (free!) update to Zebra 3, who would be angry that resources are being taken away from that project. So, making your customer base mad is another cost. U-He is pretty much universally beloved, but people can be fickle.

Anyway, do you own Uhbik? It's not the same thing as what you're asking for, but it's a very nice effects suite, and there's a new version in beta. Buy it, if you don't own it. Buy Colour Copy too... and Satin. Hell, buy everything they offer. It's all very good quality. Maybe if enough people do that, U-He will have the funds to hire a developer to make your dream plugin.

[Urs]

Updating Filterscape with a new UI has cost us an estimated 11 months of work. No code needed to be written (but I took two weeks to add some filters, yay). Everything seemed like an easy thing to do.

The reality is that releasing a new product on the level we're at, with a user base the size we have, the level of documentation, setting up websites and triple checking of correctness of every single aspect, like developing unit tests and test procedures to garantee product quality, is just on a different level than "lift a few algorithms and graphics of this product, slap it into a new product and just release it". And even the developers are involved in it on every step of the way, as are support guys, preset designers, product specialists, UI people, marketing and finance.

The short answer is: We need to finish Zebra 3, and then we need to draw all our attention onto Diva. In a world that gets rougher we need to focus on things that matter. A small niche FX unit is not going to cut it - it likely costs more to bring it out than the revenue it produces.

[limitlesssss]

Updating Filterscape with a new UI has cost us an estimated 11 months of work. No code needed to be written (but I took two weeks to add some filters, yay). Everything seemed like an easy thing to do.

The reality is that releasing a new product on the level we're at, with a user base the size we have, the level of documentation, setting up websites and triple checking of correctness of every single aspect, like developing unit tests and test procedures to garantee product quality, is just on a different level than "lift a few algorithms and graphics of this product, slap it into a new product and just release it". And even the developers are involved in it on every step of the way, as are support guys, preset designers, product specialists, UI people, marketing and finance.

The short answer is: We need to finish Zebra 3, and then we need to draw all our attention onto Diva. In a world that gets rougher we need to focus on things that matter. A small niche FX unit is not going to cut it - it likely costs more to bring it out than the revenue it produces.

That’s fair enough. Thank you Urs for the answer.

I hope one day the CLAP version allows for audio input as you’ve mentioned before:

we're more and more building our internals around CLAP, so that one day audio input for synths should become a possibility.

Thank you again Urs.

[limitlesssss]

Updating Filterscape with a new UI has cost us an estimated 11 months of work. No code needed to be written (but I took two weeks to add some filters, yay). Everything seemed like an easy thing to do.

The reality is that releasing a new product on the level we're at, with a user base the size we have, the level of documentation, setting up websites and triple checking of correctness of every single aspect, like developing unit tests and test procedures to garantee product quality, is just on a different level than "lift a few algorithms and graphics of this product, slap it into a new product and just release it". And even the developers are involved in it on every step of the way, as are support guys, preset designers, product specialists, UI people, marketing and finance.

The short answer is: We need to finish Zebra 3, and then we need to draw all our attention onto Diva. In a world that gets rougher we need to focus on things that matter. A small niche FX unit is not going to cut it - it likely costs more to bring it out than the revenue it produces.

That’s fair enough. Thank you Urs for the answer.

I hope one day at least the CLAP version allows for audio input as you’ve mentioned before. That would be perfect.

we're more and more building our internals around CLAP, so that one day audio input for synths should become a possibility.

Thank you again Urs.

[limitlesssss]

Is that something that would be profitable? Maybe, but there are an awful lot of people who bought Zebra HZ for the free (free!) update to Zebra 3, who would be angry that resources are being taken away from that project. So, making your customer base mad is another cost.

An angry customer base was a cost I wasn't taking into account.

Anyway, do you own Uhbik? It's not the same thing as what you're asking for, but it's a very nice effects suite, and there's a new version in beta. Buy it, if you don't own it. Buy Colour Copy too... and Satin. Hell, buy everything they offer. It's all very good quality. Maybe if enough people do that, U-He will have the funds to hire a developer to make your dream plugin.

u-he Everything Bundle is pretty much a no-brainer IMHO. One of the only developers I can say this about.

Having said that, none of the reverbs and delays in u-he's catalog sound like Drench and Lyrebird, even CoCo. Can you tell I love those two effects?

So my only hope is, that one day (AFTER all other plug-in's needs have been taken care of) Urs implements audio input for the CLAP version of Repro-1/5 as he's alluded to in the past.

we're more and more building our internals around CLAP, so that one day audio input for synths should become a possibility.

I guess I have to wait and see. It may or may not happen.

But thank you for your thoughts.

[Tj Shredder]

All code is already there… And at the same time its never finished and thus not there…

[Cavey Arrgh]

I can completely understand how a bespoke fx plugin would be lots of work, and also completely understand Urs has lots of higher priority items.

I am curious, can someone (other than Urs, so he doesn't have to spend time on my idle curiosity) explain at a super high level what would need to be done if the only change was to allow external audio input. Ie, the "fx only" aspect would require just using the existing full repro plug (so uses exact existing gui and presets etc) and clicking some new settings menu item to allow external audio (which would bypass the repro oscillators)? Reason's Parsec RE has something very similar.

[Uncle E]

The short answer is: We need to finish Zebra 3, and then we need to draw all our attention onto Diva.

[Ploki]

now that's a leak i didn't expect

[dermage]

Diva 2 upcoming, you heard it here first. As always.
Thanks Urs & team. Keeping my 20€ upgrade cost ready.