What more features are you hoping for?

[rpc9943]

It's clutter. I hate seeing a whole screen full of export links that are old or dead, or a screen full of audio clips that are still on my drive like drum hits that I used a long time ago but removed in the project. Its really annoying and cumbersome.

RonC

[AD80]

You must have a hard time focusing on things. It doesnt seem like clutter to me at all. Its much more convenient having all my stuff in the project window than searching for it in windows and remembering the specific names of everything.

[ModuLR]

It's clutter. I hate seeing a whole screen full of export links that are old or dead, or a screen full of audio clips that are still on my drive like drum hits that I used a long time ago but removed in the project. Its really annoying and cumbersome.

RonC

I dunno.. I always have my project page sorted by "type" so edits are always at the top. Everything on it's page is just creative material that was considered for the edit. It being on the projects page has no bearing because your content is in the edit itself. if you only want to view the material in the edit, then the "Find Reference Material" will tidy the project page up for you. But I really only see using that if you know there is material in an edit that you wish to use somewhere else like in a totally different edit.

[Montana]

""First off, I dont understand all this talk about clips. Adobe audition's multitrack mixer works virtually the same way, is that also clip-based? I find it almost exactly the same. ""

It's not the same at all. Tracktion auto borders selected audio clips with a red line that has little arrows that do various things. Audition doesn't have that.

[valley]

It's not the same at all. Tracktion auto borders selected audio clips with a red line that has little arrows that do various things. Audition doesn't have that.

And that's why I don't use audition to create music.

[kL]

Clips are great. It's the implementation that's a little overly complicated. Vegas does everything with clips that Tracktion does -- and more -- but doesn't need a clip to be 'activated' (by clicking) for any function to work: everything is always available, depending on where the mouse cursor is placed. Having to select the clip is just a useless extra step.
In addition, the edges of clips auto-fade to avoid clicks at splits (someone has already mentioned that as a request in this thread, I believe).
Tracktion really is an amazing fresh take on DAW software (the most innovative approach in years, as far as I'm concerned); but lacks a few basic abilities to use alone, as a sole application throughout the process.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned sends and bussing that don't require racks. Racks=latency=useless for mixing.
Then there's asio direct monitoring... no one wants that?
Everyone seems to agree that better overdub (loop recording and subsequent comping of takes) is necessary.
I know that there are many ways of working and nothing can be all things to all people, but some stuff seems fundamental.
On the other hand, contrary to many of my colleagues, I could care less about a dedicated (emulated) mixing console or hardware control surfaces, even though I did years of mixes on them (consoles, not control surfaces). Why go back? Why make a jet cockpit look like a wagon seat and a joystick look like reins?

[rpc9943]

well it seems in audition its not clips, but have more or less almost the exact same functionality as in T.

RonC

[Lunch Money]

Wow, I can't imagine anyone not wanting clips. All they do is ADD functionality-- they don't subtract any functionality at all! I only wish that the visual representation of the wave didn't shift to accomodate the 'utility' bar... ie. that the DC 'line' is the same on both selected and unselected clips.

Ron, I can't help but suspect that you're doing something wrong or missing a concept for project management. What you mentioned about your clients and all that... doing 8 different edits is super-easy in the Tracktion way of doing things....

I DO agree that the project window can get cluttered, but only because I find myself deleting a lot of 'naff' clips left right and centre, and sometimes when I delete them from an edit, I want them gone, PERIOD.

But most times, I like having them around... it's like "the lost takes"... some day you can revisit them, remix, maybe find a gem that you had overlooked the first time or something. The odds of me doing that? VEEEeeerry slim. But it's nice to have the option.

For project consolidation, I found the simplest way was simply to export an edit. Make a "master edit" that contains all the source material you need, and export it. Delete the whole original project folder and re-import the edit. Done. Clean.

Greg

[valley]

In addition, the edges of clips auto-fade to avoid clicks at splits (someone has already mentioned that as a request in this thread, I believe).

I'd rather have that as an option not a default. I can do that in Tracktion with just one click if needs be.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned

I'm surprised you think they haven't...

sends and bussing that don't require racks.

bussing as distinct from sends? Group bussing doesn't need racks.

Racks=latency=useless for mixing.

for mixing I would disagree. I dislike the added latency of racks intensely, but mixing is not the place where it matters. The only time ultra-low latencies are needed is when playing live.

Then there's asio direct monitoring... no one wants that?

Dunno. I don't. If I'm running stuff through Tracktion it's cos I'm adding effects to it.

but some stuff seems fundamental.

It's a V1 application.

Why go back? Why make a jet cockpit look like a wagon seat and a joystick look like reins?

Oh, I don't give a crap about the hardware model, I just like "tactile". I can't do heavy realtime parameter tweaking with a mouse and a handful of pixels on screen. I also enjoy not having to move when mixing, so a small light control surface that gives me hardcore realtime knob tweaking happiness, and level faders that I can control without needing to look around a screen or lean forward to adjust etc, just seems like better ergonmoics.

[AD80]

Then there's asio direct monitoring... no one wants that?

Dunno. I don't. If I'm running stuff through Tracktion it's cos I'm adding effects to it.

We already have direct ASIO monitoring dont we?

[valley]

We already have direct ASIO monitoring dont we?

Hmm... I dunno. I thought kL was referring to the zero latency monitoring that some asio drivers offer, which AFAIK doesn't work with Tracktion.

Maybe kL *is* talking abotu end-to-end support.

[braj]

I remember when the DX-era synths first started being released, and analog synths even started losing their knobs, I bought a Juno2 with that alpha-dial, and man did I miss those old knobs and sliders. I could make a thousand patches a day with a old knobby synth, but that Juno was so hard to get into, and it was the easiest of the knob-less synths.

I think the thing that is really key is that, in the moment, you can 'play' a console almost like an instrument and do 10 things at once, with the creative juices fully flowing. I doubt anyone can have that much control with a mouse and keyboard. If I had my way, I'd have a 24 track control surface, and custom controllers made for my favorite VSTi's. I just don't think there is any better way, 'reigns' or whatever.

[kL]

In addition, the edges of clips auto-fade to avoid clicks at splits (someone has already mentioned that as a request in this thread, I believe).

I'd rather have that as an option not a default. I can do that in Tracktion with just one click if needs be.

Both sides? At the same time?
(In Vegas it's an option to make it the default... or not.)

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned

I'm surprised you think they haven't...

Can't see everything...

sends and bussing that don't require racks.

bussing as distinct from sends? Group bussing doesn't need racks.

Sending to buses. As important as simple grouping.

Racks=latency=useless for mixing.

for mixing I would disagree. I dislike the added latency of racks intensely, but mixing is not the place where it matters. The only time ultra-low latencies are needed is when playing live.

Latency, even the smallest amount, causes phase problems when mixing. This was a reason why many engineers stuck with analog mixers and hated plugins for years.

Then there's asio direct monitoring... no one wants that?

Dunno. I don't. If I'm running stuff through Tracktion it's cos I'm adding effects to it.

Tape style monitoring for punchins; latency-free monitoring at any time.

but some stuff seems fundamental.

It's a V1 application.

Version 1? Fundamentals first?

Why go back? Why make a jet cockpit look like a wagon seat and a joystick look like reins?

Oh, I don't give a crap about the hardware model, I just like "tactile". I can't do heavy realtime parameter tweaking with a mouse and a handful of pixels on screen. I also enjoy not having to move when mixing, so a small light control surface that gives me hardcore realtime knob tweaking happiness, and level faders that I can control without needing to look around a screen or lean forward to adjust etc, just seems like better ergonmoics.

Hours slaving over an SSL to get tiny details right = minutes drawing vector envelopes. Once again, everyone has and deserves his/her own methods. Cheers.

[AD80]

We already have direct ASIO monitoring dont we?

Hmm... I dunno. I thought kL was referring to the zero latency monitoring that some asio drivers offer, which AFAIK doesn't work with Tracktion.

Maybe kL *is* talking abotu end-to-end support.

Theres a button in the settings called "use ASIO direct mode". I dont know if that activates it or what. But I've been using direct monitoring with my Omni-Studio since I got Tracktion. Zero latency monitoring through the soundcard.

[valley]

Both sides? At the same time?
(In Vegas it's an option to make it the default... or not.)

laer clips slightly overlapped and click "auto crossfade"

Can't see everything...

32,000 posts in this forum, the odds are that someone has.

Latency, even the smallest amount, causes phase problems when mixing. This was a reason why many engineers stuck with analog mixers and hated plugins for years.

But that's irrelevant with software. Tracktion compensates for the delay.

Tape style monitoring for punchins; latency-free monitoring at any time.

i don't get the point of this. It is only latency-free until you hit record. If software is recording audio, there is latency. No ASIO soundcard on earth can get round that. Latency free monitoring is exactly that: "monitoring". If they had invented latency free recording, you can bet they would have marketed it as such.

Version 1? Fundamentals first?

Whose? Yours? Take twenty people and ask them to list their five most fundamental requirments from a sequencer and you'll end up with at least 20 fundamentals. Doesn't the fact that some people have been using tracktion for more than a year suggest that for them the fundamentals *are* there?

Hours slaving over an SSL to get tiny details right = minutes drawing vector envelopes.

You say that as though a hardware fader wired to a software control precludes the usage of vector envelopes. I don't see that. The fader doesn't take any functionaility away from the mouse, and you still have fully editable vector envelopes. You just have a nicer editing method than a mouse pointer to manipulate them with.