Zebra 3 and Zebra Legacy

[Urs]

No worries, Zebra 3 is just fine as it is. The UI could be snappier on Windows and Linux, scrolling modules in particular, but it's not a showstopper for us.

We can deliver a snappier experience in a V3.1 or V3.2 update.

[limitlesssss]

I'd like to know what it takes for native macOS and Windows software to be able to run natively on GNU/Linux. In other words, what does it take for GNU/Linux to support Windows software catalog as is natively? Is it even technically possible?

[Urs]

There are various solutions for that, but I'm not the expert.

[catamorphism]

Urs thanks for sharing the background on the Linux versions. It is really interesting.

I'd like to know what it takes for native macOS and Windows software to be able to run natively on GNU/Linux. In other words, what does it take for GNU/Linux to support Windows software catalog as is natively? Is it even technically possible?

There is wine which is a kind of reimplementation of windows APIs and alongside some other technologies there is a lot of software that does just work. See also https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge

[limitlesssss]

Urs thanks for sharing the background on the Linux versions. It is really interesting.

I'd like to know what it takes for native macOS and Windows software to be able to run natively on GNU/Linux. In other words, what does it take for GNU/Linux to support Windows software catalog as is natively? Is it even technically possible?

There is wine which is a kind of reimplementation of windows APIs and alongside some other technologies there is a lot of software that does just work. See also https://github.com/robbert-vdh/yabridge

You're right about WINE and yabridge. But what I meant was running a piece of Windows software in GNU/Linux without using WINE or such, doing it natively by just double-clicking an exe file and running it if you will. Wanted to know if it was even technically possible? If they really wanted to do it, would it even technically be possible?

[pgwalsh]

I'd like to know what it takes for native macOS and Windows software to be able to run natively on GNU/Linux. In other words, what does it take for GNU/Linux to support Windows software catalog as is natively? Is it even technically possible?

Wine is not an emulator it's a compatibility layer. So you're literally running native windows apps on linux with wine, that is what you need. You can double click on .exe files now and run through wine. Some native windows steam games run faster on wine/proton then they do on windows.

You either run windows apps through something like wine, which is a compatibility layer or compile for linux. Other than that you can use an emulator.

For Mac Apps there is Darling.

[koalaboy]

ht about WINE and yabridge. But what I meant was running a piece of Windows software in GNU/Linux without using WINE or such, doing it natively by just double-clicking an exe file and running it if you will. Wanted to know if it was even technically possible? If they really wanted to do it, would it even technically be possible?

It's not technically possible because each Operating System has their own system calls/frameworks.

It's why, when building for multiple platforms, you have a few options:
1) Have separate builds/codepaths for each, with some shared libraries
2) Use a language such as Rust that *mostly* can build for multiple platforms with little change (although the various libraries need to support all platforms as some core things are still unique)
3) Use a language such as Java/C# that ship their own 'managed' virtual machine for each platform - but then you generally lose native interaction unless you plugin in more platform-specific libraries.

Even when the chipset is the same (x86/arm/etc.) it's all the 'other' things that an OS insists upon that make running one executable on multiple platforms, difficult.

You could go the root of the olden days, and not require an OS at all.. just have the application boot direcly off the disk (folks who remember DOS games) but then you also have to deal with all the hardware variants, so.. not really any more.

U-he is one of the best for supporting as many people as possible, and we can see that more companies are doing their bit... but for most businesses, there just isn't the financial worth.

In the same way most games companies don't port their games to Mac/Linux natively, even though the engines such as UnrealEngine/Unity support them all - each one needs 'special' changes.

It's already impressive how many supporting both Mac and Windows, manage to do so without too much pain. Just using the different OSes is enough hassle already, as they choose to be 'different'.
I have no doubt that AI will make this even more ... 'fun'... as it gets more tightly intertwined. Perhaps that will cause a bigger shift to Linux (which offers more control) overall, making it an easier choice for developers.

[rmbles]

It's interesting how many (from a software development and music perspective at least) new software/tools seem to be 'MacOS first' before even Windows versions are released (let alone Linux).

Globally nearly everyone (as a %) runs Windows but a majority (it seems) of developers actually use/prefer Macs.

[koalaboy]

It's interesting how many (from a software development and music perspective at least) new software/tools seem to be 'MacOS first' before even Windows versions are released (let alone Linux).

Globally nearly everyone (as a %) runs Windows but a majority (it seems) of developers actually use/prefer Macs.

In my experience, there are three reasons:
1) More companies provide macs these days, as the laptops have much better battery life, etc.
2) Macs have a much better 'store' experience if you want to sell on them
3) They are much closer to Linux development without a VM (so better than WSL2)

I have all machines at home, but would always go for a mac for development if I couldn't have a Linux machine. Unless it's for games, and then Windows is kind of 'standard' still.

[aMUSEd]

It's interesting how many (from a software development and music perspective at least) new software/tools seem to be 'MacOS first' before even Windows versions are released (let alone Linux).

Globally nearly everyone (as a %) runs Windows but a majority (it seems) of developers actually use/prefer Macs.

In my experience, there are three reasons:
1) More companies provide macs these days, as the laptops have much better battery life, etc.
2) Macs have a much better 'store' experience if you want to sell on them
3) They are much closer to Linux development without a VM (so better than WSL2)

I have all machines at home, but would always go for a mac for development if I couldn't have a Linux machine. Unless it's for games, and then Windows is kind of 'standard' still.

I suspect the main reasons are having a much more homogeneous and therefore predictable range of system specs rather than the pick n mix PC approach and well thought out and implemented audio and graphics subsystems

[koalaboy]

It's interesting how many (from a software development and music perspective at least) new software/tools seem to be 'MacOS first' before even Windows versions are released (let alone Linux).

Globally nearly everyone (as a %) runs Windows but a majority (it seems) of developers actually use/prefer Macs.

In my experience, there are three reasons:
1) More companies provide macs these days, as the laptops have much better battery life, etc.
2) Macs have a much better 'store' experience if you want to sell on them
3) They are much closer to Linux development without a VM (so better than WSL2)

I have all machines at home, but would always go for a mac for development if I couldn't have a Linux machine. Unless it's for games, and then Windows is kind of 'standard' still.

I suspect the main reasons are having a much more homogeneous and therefore predictable range of system specs rather than the pick n mix PC approach and well thought out and implemented audio and graphics subsystems

Maybe, but... I work in gaming, and the majority of laptops are Windows with very common Alienware hardware specs. Also, they tend to want some variance to help QA because if everyone is on identical hardware, you don't find user issues as quickly.

Sure, if you're only ever going to support a single platform, Mac is a wonderfull walled garden in that respect. But most devs tend to develop for at least Mac and Windows.

There's a lot to be said for the login experience though, with Microsoft demanding an online account to simply login, whereas Mac allows you a local account and just requires online accounts for... well, online things (without having to tweak/hack things).

[Super Piano Hater 64]

Maybe, but... I work in gaming, and the majority of laptops are Windows with very common Alienware hardware specs.

Obviously gamers and game developers prefer Windows (though there is a rapidly growing minority using Proton on Linux). The Mac ecosystem has been a gaming desert ever since the infamous Halo coup in the PowerPC days.

Music production is different. It might be the occupation with the highest proportion of Mac users per capita, even higher than the graphic arts. People who are starting to get serious about music production often switch just for that. I'm not sure it can be explained in purely logical terms, especially when looking at the people who started out using bootleg copies of Ableton or FL Studio on Windows and then buy licenses for the Mac versions after they switch. It's peer pressure and vibes. They do it because "everybody" does it.

By the way, this gets discussed all the time in every subforum on KVR. Lots of people insist it doesn't happen, developers chime in with usage statistics, nobody changes their mind, and sooner or later it collapses into yet another flame war. I must have seen this play out a dozen times before I ever made an account.

[pc999]

Yeah... as you know, Bitwig and we are close. We know about it, and we also know how hard it was.

Things like Skia are catering for application level. But we are doing plug-ins. It doesn't work the same way, there may be conflicts when multiple plug-ins use the same framework.

For some perspective, we co-sponsored and co-developed a project to do a fully working CLAP example project based on Dear IMGUI, which uses GLFW. It was a nightmare. Those things are not designed to be used in plug-ins where the main process uses this or that, and the plug-in uses something else. We ended up replacing GLFW with direct support for Metal and, hm, was it Vulcan?

We have to be slightly old fashioned in that way, and try to avoid dependencies that may clash with the rest of the hosting environment (host or other plug-ins). On Windows we're probably going to go for trusty old Direct-Something. On Linux we have to see. I think the points is, we'll refactor our stuff to support multiple things on each platform.

Thanks for the insights, would love to hear more as stuff progresses.

[paultheswede]

I still dont understand the payment structure of Zebra 3. Every time I read a response it gives me a head ache.
I'd like just a simple yes or no answer please. If I buy Zebra Legacy today Nov 7th 2025. When Zebra 3 comes out. Is it a free upgrade for me ? Just my specific situation please not the complex if I own this or that, and downloaded that thing before a certain day thing. Just a simple, yes free update to Zebra 3 or no you have to pay to get Zebra 3. Thanks

[Lati]

I still dont understand the payment structure of Zebra 3. Every time I read a response it gives me a head ache.
I'd like just a simple yes or no answer please. If I buy Zebra Legacy today Nov 7th 2025. When Zebra 3 comes out. Is it a free upgrade for me ? Just my specific situation please not the complex if I own this or that, and downloaded that thing before a certain day thing. Just a simple, yes free update to Zebra 3 or no you have to pay to get Zebra 3. Thanks

No.