Diva vs Analogue - a real world test

[zerocrossing]

I want a Modal 008

Really? Being a big fan of the.002, I had such high hopes for that one, but all the demos I've heard, so far, have sounded pretty bad to me.

[bftucker]

A Real World Test...in the unreal world of KVR. You have to smile.

[zerocrossing]

Oh, also, I don't actually care for vintage analog synths. Most of the coveted classics lacked really basic things that modern analogs now mostly have. (put me in the 'disappointed' category that Korg decided to not trick out their new MS20 and Odyssey with at least velocity and aftertouch)

The thing about that is it isn't really simple to get velocity to work well on a monophonic synthesizer.

That is because the voice is always recycled, it's always active. So if you play a note, release with a longer release time and then play a new note at a different velocity, you'll get the click/jump from the velocity suddenly changing.

It also requires that you add the ability for velocity to take effect... but where? In my X1 synthesizer I have an additional output to cutoff, but not to amplitude or other places (would require DC-accurate modulation mixers/VCAs) and the cutoff input from velocity is simply added, not multiplied.

As it turns out, once you've designed a system like this you might realize that you end up taking up more space in the circuit with all these mixers/multipliers/switches and other control circuitry than the main part of the synthesizer!

I can see it easily doubling the size of the PCB, they'd likely need to use a SMD second pane (layered behind the existing board and connected with a ribbon) as well as massive rearrangement of the circuits on the original board.

Try it with a modular and you'll see. Since the MS-20 is semi-modular you can already do this by simply patching this stuff in from your own MIDI->CV or other external modules.

Sources are trivial. After-touch, velocity, release velocity, pitch bend, mod wheel or any other CC are all the same type of input. These parameters can be routed on the digital side (the MIDI -> CV) by a software mod-matrix. This is how I accomplished it.

The non-trivial part is the real analog circuitry to actually make this stuff possible.

One possibility is to move all the modulation into software on the chip, but then it isn't "analog" anymore!

I'm not solid on the technical aspects, but every analog I own except the Neptune 2 does it well, but all those synths do have digital components.

[Mutant]

It sounds nice and like some kind of synthesized brass section.
Thats all.

With this i mean, there is no need to translate it into words when i am listening for fun.
The sound is just a sound, not a word.
I am not thinking "oh how warm this is", i am just listening and enjoying.

[fluffy_little_something]

The meaning of colors is in our genes, just like it is in the genes of animals, although of course the same color (wavelength to be more precise) may be associated with different feelings in animals. And of course not all eyes see things the way ours do.

Which has nothing to do with synaesthesia.

You mentioned the poker, not me.

Well spotted.

It does not matter if it is a poker or lava or whatever.

I know, that's why it was an example.

Probably dates back to ancient humans looking at the sun and feeling the heat coming from it at the same time.

Im glad you got there in the end. Thats exactly my point. In other words, nothing to do with synaesthesia.

Colors also manipulate our perception of size, orange and brown make us perceive space as smaller, blue does the opposite.

Which has nothing to do synaesthesia either.

Of course telling fruit apart on the basis of different shades of red has nothing to do with warmth, I just mentioned it because it shows how such things are in our genes. Women can distinguish several times as many shades of red as men can, which helped them tell apart poisonous fruit from good ones, and also to tell how ripe fruit were. They did experiments to back it up.

And yet again, nothing to do with synaesthesia.

edit : fixed quoteblock issue.[/quote]


I do think most of that has to do with synesthesia, albeit a mild form of it. For some people that phenomenon is a lot stronger of course, but I think everyone has synesthesia to an extent. It is not just a memorized association. One could do an experiment: let people put their hands on surfaces of the same material, but of different colors, and guess the temperature. I bet many would say a blue one feels colder than an orange one

[zerocrossing]

You probably haven't bothered to actually read the thread, but you might be interested in the fact this discussion is rooted in my defense of those using the term "warm".

Then let me ask you this, and yes, unfortunately, I have read this whole insane thread, how would YOU describe the sound of an analog synth in the low bass range or a mid range Moog type lead sound with low pass filter cutoff open about mid way?

To me, that's a "warm" sound. But if you feel that is a bad way to describe such a sound, what word or words would YOU use to describe it?

It's a simple question that I would think would have a very simple answer.

I decree that from this time forward we describe warm sounds as "even order harmonically rich but band limited in the upper frequency range." THE KING HAS SPOKEN!

[zerocrossing]

However "warm" can mean something in a metaphorical sense if there is a widely accepted meaning of what. In this thread there did not seem to be any consensus about it.
Metaphors are not technically precise by definition and thus of limited use if they are left to intuition. I think I would understand what is meant perceptually if some one said a traingle wave sounds "hollow" and a saw "sharp" in contrast but if you use the terms about an entire song I wouldn't be sure what it means at all. I have no idea what warm is in that respect and like others I cannot see it's significance in describing a sound. Is it something distorted, something that signify a varied sound compared to a stable sound, a feeling as proposed (like getting "hot" if you watch porn with a decoded tv signal and only can hear what is going on? - very analog indeed). If it means something it should at least translate into some kind of percpetual definition, so plz give examples or explain. The various uses in this thread suggests there are no obvious consensus. Intuition will not do.

Somehow the visual arts have figured this out long ago. Warm tones and cool tones are often spoken of and no one derails threads about what it means.

[whyterabbyt]

I do think most of that has to do with synesthesia, albeit a mild form of it.

And yet none of it involved what synaesthesia actually is. Its becoming very clear you dont understand what that is.

One could do an experiment: let people put their hands on surfaces of the same material, but of different colors, and guess the temperature. I bet many would say a blue one feels colder than an orange one

Which would have nothing to do with synaesthesia.

[fluffy_little_something]

Why not? Your skin would feel what your eyes tell it to feel. You would see the temperature so to speak.

[Aryaroman]

Oh, I see this thread is still alive and better than ever.

[aciddose]

Then let me ask you this, and yes, unfortunately, I have read this whole insane thread, how would YOU describe the sound of an analog synth in the low bass range or a mid range Moog type lead sound with low pass filter cutoff open about mid way?

I have no idea what you're describing, but I'll go ahead and make some assumptions.

Since the harmonic spectra is focused on odd harmonic partials (pulse) this gives the sound a "hollow" or "wooden" timbre similar to knocking on a resonant wooden box or strings plucked mid-neck.

Now note that when I would use such a term to describe a sound (never) I would only do so by making a direct comparison between the spectral properties of the two sounds.

By "mid-way" I assume you mean approximately 1khz, this is a typical tuning at mid position.

What I would actually describe are the properties of the sound, directly, without making comparisons or including any subjectivity.

For example a sound built of three pulses, one detuned -24 semitones, the others offset in opposite directions 33 cents from zero with the linear (no drive) 24db low-pass filter with minimal (<12%) feedback set to 1khz.

This should make a fine example of what I meant when I described the that reason people use terms like "warm" is purely due to some combination of inability and laziness.

[fluffy_little_something]

Laziness or inability when choosing one word over an entire paragraph?! To me it is an indication of intelligence and efficiency

Also, warm is more like a generic term, there are x different synth settings that result in different warm sounds.

[Mutant]

Laziness or inability when choosing one word over an entire paragraph?! To me it is an indication of intelligence and efficiency

Heh... if all Synth1 patches could be described with 1 word each... we would need more than 10000 new words.

[aciddose]

Laziness or inability when choosing one word over an entire paragraph?!

Oh heaven forbid a whole paragraph! Oh dear me. Heavens to Betsy!

Thankfully I've managed in one sentence.

"A sound built of three pulses, one detuned -24 semitones, the others offset in opposite directions 33 cents from zero with the linear (no drive) 24db low-pass filter with minimal (<12%) feedback set to 1khz."



rofl.

[aciddose]

One word: "shh."