The best VST Oscilloscope?

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Once you get too much HF information you face the problem that the waveform can't be accurately displayed with the 2nd method without an accurate filter.

There are different methods here too. In this case I'll show you the unfiltered and poorly filtered results because I don't have high quality Gaussian or sinc filters implemented for this purpose. I also don't have a CRT (tube+beam+phosphor) emulator, although if I recall correctly mystran provides one on his site that works reasonably well.

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As you can see the peak level of the waveform is varied because the peak level of the sampled signal is varied. In order to measure the actual peak level a complex sinc filter is required.

Alternatively using a Gaussian filter it is possible to reduce HF content to zero and more accurately measure peak level but this is typically not what you want in these cases.

To better demonstrate this effect I'll zoom the waveform from a higher frequency so I can apply cheap filters so you can see the change:

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Unfiltered.

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Cubic kernel.

As you can see in the second image the peak level of the waveform is more accurately approximated, although the filter isn't steep enough to produce a perfect result there are less "valleys" in the waveform.

A CRT model overcomes this issue by not filtering the signal at all... although in such cases the intensity of the result is highly variable due to interference patterns and often times 8-bit color is not nearly enough. (Need floating point to accurately produce good results.)

... unfortunately now I can't figure out where that CRT modelling plug-in I thought existed was...
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GearNostalgia wrote: Ok, lets see. Good questions, with clean I actually should say steady I guess. With the scpoe plugs I have tried so far it is very hard to get it to show a steady picture of a pure sine or saw VCO output. It jumps around too much to see now a cycle looks like. I don't really care if I see one, two or a few more cycles as long as it is a steady picture.
Okay so you're talking about the sync functionality.

It is impossible to accurately sync an oscilloscope from the input signal except in very specific circumstances.

So what you need is a method to transmit the root frequency to the scope so it knows exactly when and how often to sync, how to scale the display and so on.

I'm not sure such a thing exists. It's trivial inside the synth itself but there is no method to transmit such information between plug-ins in VST.

The only method might be to send the note input to the scope and transpose/tune from there, but modulation would still be left out. Another method could be to link the two plug-ins (via "vendor specific" function or similar) to communicate such information directly. This type of communication between host and plug-ins actually was possible in VST but I'm not sure many hosts support it or that it really exists anymore.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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aciddose wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Ok, lets see. Good questions, with clean I actually should say steady I guess. With the scpoe plugs I have tried so far it is very hard to get it to show a steady picture of a pure sine or saw VCO output. It jumps around too much to see now a cycle looks like. I don't really care if I see one, two or a few more cycles as long as it is a steady picture.
Okay so you're talking about the sync functionality.

It is impossible to accurately sync an oscilloscope from the input signal except in very specific circumstances.

So what you need is a method to transmit the root frequency to the scope so it knows exactly when and how often to sync, how to scale the display and so on.

I'm not sure such a thing exists. It's trivial inside the synth itself but there is no method to transmit such information between plug-ins in VST.

The only method might be to send the note input to the scope and transpose/tune from there, but modulation would still be left out. Another method could be to link the two plug-ins (via "vendor specific" function or similar) to communicate such information directly. This type of communication between host and plug-ins actually was possible in VST but I'm not sure many hosts support it or that it really exists anymore.

Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.

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What would work is to emulate how the analog system works.

So you'd need a separate "sync input" on the scope which would come from the raw unfiltered root frequency waveform such as a sub oscillator.

You'd also need a synthesizer plug-in that can distinctly output multiple signals... for example the full filtered + enveloped signal in one channel with a single sub-osc (-2 oct or similar) on another channel.

Then you could connect those and the scope could use a trigger generator identical to the one used in analog scopes... this is exactly how such scopes work!

So this would only work for monophonic synths. Once you have polyphony you'd need to have some way to accurately output both 1) the desired sync frequency and 2) the sync trigger impulse. So this could work the same as usual if you used the lowest note of a chord as the sync signal. You could then continue as before and output the sub-osc signal from only that voice to the sync input on the scope.

If you didn't use the lowest note you'd need to compute the least common multiple of all the frequencies at play which is impossible without having all that data provided by the source... you can't measure it accurately from the input signal without huge latency and high rates of error.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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GearNostalgia wrote:Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.
Exactly... although such a thing would suck and be useless to most people.

Being able to type in the frequency or a frequency function would be great. I could create such a plug-in, but realistically you want to be able to re-size the window and use hardware accelerated redraw.

Still though even given the frequency it would need to know where to sync.

In the video you linked do you notice the "wobble" of the waveform around the sync edge? It moves back and forth by several pixels because the sync detector isn't accurate enough.

If you wanted similar performance you'd need a similar sync signal input to the scope.

Otherwise you'd need to provide the exact sample upon which to sync, which again requires communication between the source plug-in and scope plug-in.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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aciddose wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote:Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.
Exactly... although such a thing would suck and be useless to most people.

Being able to type in the frequency or a frequency function would be great. I could create such a plug-in, but realistically you want to be able to re-size the window and use hardware accelerated redraw.

Still though even given the frequency it would need to know where to sync.

In the video you linked do you notice the "wobble" of the waveform around the sync edge? It moves back and forth by several pixels because the sync detector isn't accurate enough.

If you wanted similar performance you'd need a similar sync signal input to the scope.

Otherwise you'd need to provide the exact sample upon which to sync, which again requires communication between the source plug-in and scope plug-in.
Why not have a dial to "tune" in where it should sync? start with a value and then turn it until it works out ok?

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nvmd
Last edited by chk071 on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GearNostalgia wrote: Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.
The Janus Thorborg's Signalizer plugin that user "virtualpt" linked earlier can do this in its Custom Trigger option.
Last edited by pottering on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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GearNostalgia wrote: Why not have a dial to "tune" in where it should sync? start with a value and then turn it until it works out ok?
And how would that work?

Trigger detectors usually work by detecting when the signal crosses a specific threshold voltage and then only within a window or by delay/division of the count of events. It doesn't work at all unless you have a specific point in the waveform that crosses a specific threshold at the point you want to sync.

You can't sync noise for example. Neither can you sync a filtered waveform, especially complicated ones with high Q values for the filter.

You can't easily sync PWM on the modulated edge because it moves and throws things off. You can sync to the fixed/static edge, but only if it's very clean and even then the accuracy is poor and creates that "wobble" effect.
Free plug-ins for Windows, MacOS and Linux. Xhip Synthesizer v8.0 and Xhip Effects Bundle v6.7.
The coder's credo: We believe our work is neither clever nor difficult; it is done because we thought it would be easy.
Work less; get more done.

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chk071 wrote:
pekbro wrote:The blue cat audio oscilloscope multi is very good, particularly if you want to look
at stuff in detail. It also goes on sale occasionally, I bought it for $9 a while back.
I'd get it as well, for that price. 49 € is a bit steep for a mere analyzer plugin. Yes, i'm a penny pincher.
Another vote for Oscilliscope Multi. :D

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Yeah, sync, and .. hmm ... but which scope is the prettiest and attracts the most girls lol j/k

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pottering wrote:
GearNostalgia wrote: Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.
The Janus Thorborg's Signalizer plugin that user "virtualpt" linked earlier can do this in its Custom Trigger option.
Thank you for suggesting this. After some experimentation I found it to be clean and steady enough for my needs. :tu:

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low_low wrote:Yeah, sync, and .. hmm ... but which scope is the prettiest and attracts the most girls lol j/k
I can't help with your relationship issues but this is the prettiest scope by far: https://www.kvraudio.com/product/pretty ... soundemote

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aciddose wrote:...you'd need a separate "sync input" on the scope which would come from the raw unfiltered root frequency waveform such as a sub oscillator.
The 'Modular' variant of s(M)exoscope has a third input (plus the trigger-option 'External') for just that purpose.

For some reason the external trigger signal needs to be rather high-amplitude (otherwise the scope wont trigger/refresh) but once everything is dialled in right it pretty much does what youd expect.

There may be others that have this functionality but im not aware of any.

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GearNostalgia wrote:Well if I just knew a scope that I could enter a base note into that would be ok cause I don't need to play different notes. I could work with selecting what note frequency to scan.
VPS Scope offers exactly this sync option besides many others...


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