KVR Audio

Ichad.c · Post by **Ichad.c** » Fri May 18, 2018 7:33 pm

Come to think of it, this also raises some competition policy(anti-trust for ya Americans) issues. As new developers will not have access to VST2 but existing devs will, that would create a competitive disadvantage to new entrants as VST2 demand is still high. Thereby subduing competitive market driven pricing.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Ichad.c wrote:Come to think of it, this also raises some competition policy(anti-trust for ya Americans) issues. As new developers will not have access to VST2 but existing devs will, that would create a competitive disadvantage to new entrants as VST2 demand is still high. Thereby subduing competitive market driven pricing.

As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue. How would it be a competitive disadvantage? For the end user, it doesn't matter whether it is VST2 or 3, when it works.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:03 pm

Can't new devs get SDK from existing devs?

chk071 wrote:As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue.

Ahem...

MuLAB
Digital Performer
Live
Maschine
Reason (might as well mention it, since they added VST to it)
Renoise
Audacity
probably some others too

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:58 pm

Oopi wrote:VST3 is like that Windows version nobody liked. I mean it has been around like ten years and people still complain so there has to be something terribly wrong with that. It's just not hip or cool or rad like VST2 is. Steinberg should just terminate VST3 right now and release VST4 which would really be VST2 in new disguise.

Been there ... done that ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winamp#Winamp_5

2 + 3 = 5

"Nobody wants to see a Winamp 4 skin."

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Fri May 18, 2018 9:04 pm

EvilDragon wrote:
chk071 wrote:As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue.
Ahem...

MuLAB
Digital Performer
Live
Maschine
Reason (might as well mention it, since they added VST to it)
Renoise
Audacity
probably some others too

Ok, let's say the important hosts support it then.

(Maybe except Live and Maschine on your list. Reason needs to play catch up for a while now anyway)

Robert Randolph · Post by **Robert Randolph** » Fri May 18, 2018 9:57 pm

chk071 wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
chk071 wrote:As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue.
Ahem...

MuLAB
Digital Performer
Live
Maschine
Reason (might as well mention it, since they added VST to it)
Renoise
Audacity
probably some others too
Ok, let's say the important hosts support it then. (Maybe except Live and Maschine on your list. Reason needs to play catch up for a while now anyway)

Digital Performer is important!

(and so is MuLab)

SMH · Post by **SMH** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:02 pm

Cantabile too. Seems like a lot of devs have stories like this.. https://blog.cantabilesoftware.com/ques ... ac1ccfc135

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:03 pm

chk071 wrote:
Ichad.c wrote:Come to think of it, this also raises some competition policy(anti-trust for ya Americans) issues. As new developers will not have access to VST2 but existing devs will, that would create a competitive disadvantage to new entrants as VST2 demand is still high. Thereby subduing competitive market driven pricing.
As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue. How would it be a competitive disadvantage? For the end user, it doesn't matter whether it is VST2 or 3, when it works.

Most hosts don't support it particularly well - several seem content with just loading them but to all intents and purposes apart from side chain they are functionally no better than VST2 due to lack of support for the more unique VST3 features, in fact many don't even load vstpresets properly if at all. Studio One comes closest but even then doesn't support VST3 features such as per note expression (not sure how many support sample accurate automation either, or audio input for instruments, or multiple IOs etc).

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 pm

Won't we see any new plugins processing and outputting MIDI (i.e like the Piz MIDI tools, arps, audio to MIDI...) in the future if there's no MDI processing / outputting capabilities in VST3 (as I've read) ?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat May 19, 2018 6:43 am

aMUSEd wrote:(not sure how many support sample accurate automation either, or audio input for instruments, or multiple IOs etc).

Reaper does.

Ichad.c · Post by **Ichad.c** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:17 am

No_Use wrote:Won't we see any new plugins processing and outputting MIDI (i.e like the Piz MIDI tools, arps, audio to MIDI...) in the future if there's no MDI processing / outputting capabilities in VST3 (as I've read) ?

You can verify this @KVR - just search for MIDI+VST3 plugins = 0 results. VST3 can't output MIDI - has trouble receiving it as well(can't even do a program/patch change command because of the way presets work). Even simple MIDI learn isn't really supported plug-in side, yeah - you can find plugs that are VST3 that has MIDI learn, but it is actually a non-standard(i.e. potentially unsafe) hack.

AnX · Post by **AnX** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:21 am

chk071 wrote:
EvilDragon wrote:
chk071 wrote:As every host supports VST3 these days anyway, i don't see the issue.
Ahem...

MuLAB
Digital Performer
Live
Maschine
Reason (might as well mention it, since they added VST to it)
Renoise
Audacity
probably some others too
Ok, let's say the important hosts support it then. (Maybe except Live and Maschine on your list. Reason needs to play catch up for a while now anyway)

Important to who?

My host (not on list) doesnt support vst3. My host is very important to me, vst3 is not.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:37 am

EvilDragon wrote:
aMUSEd wrote:(not sure how many support sample accurate automation either, or audio input for instruments, or multiple IOs etc).
Reaper does.

Just with VST3 or is this more a host capability? Reaper unfortunately drops the ball with its crappy preset support for VST3 and AU plugins (it's been a mess for ever and they don't seem motivated to address this).

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:45 am

Audio input for instruments: both VST2 and VST3
Multiple IOs: both VST2 and VST3 (ofc depends on how VST2 was coded but yeah)
Sample accurate automation: VST3 and JS FX, in VST2 this is only possible by dynamically changing plugin's buffer size, I don't know which plugins do this in VST2, if somebody can tell me, I can try testing.

I don't really care about preset support host-side.

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Sat May 19, 2018 7:51 am

EvilDragon wrote: I don't really care about preset support host-side.

Unfortunately neither do Reaper devs, given up bothering to ask but it's ridiculous really, especially considering VST3 and AU are both formats where host side support for presets is important.

Bye bye VST2