KVR Audio

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:49 pm

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ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:50 pm

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Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:51 pm

@ttoz: If things keep civil and reasonably on-track, a couple days is fine. It's going to take everyone's cooperation for that to happen.

ObsoleteAcc99 · Post by **ObsoleteAcc99** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:59 pm

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Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:08 pm

Yes. Moderators have no control over such stuff, we're just janitors. Not even Dilbert-style omniscient janitors.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:09 pm

as long as we can avoid nonsense like "anyone who uses warez is scum" or other such purely negative posts i don't see any way there could be a major issue.

"the initiative"... i like it ttoz, the problem though is that it doesn't make itself very clear to anyone who isn't already familiar with it.

"community initiatives" ?

most of the forum names are nouns rather than verbs.

you'd ideally want a couple sticky threads explaining the purpose and goals and laying down some rules.

there are lots of issues, some of them legal issues. collecting donations intended for anyone but yourself or associated with any specific promise can get very tricky. i'm really not sure how that works. i suppose you could just set up a pay-pal account or something similar and collect donations into an "initiative pot" of some sort without specifying the exact destination.

while pay-pal isn't really the most reliable way to collect any large sums, for small sums i've never heard of any issues and it really takes only a credit card and name/address to create an account which can even be linked from here in the forum within five minutes.

once you do that kind of stuff here on kvr though it gets complicated. not so sure ben would be comfortable with that, or even if it's already on the forum rules. there is "no advertisement" in signatures which i think also applies to posts in general, but i'm not sure if that extends to donations.

JoeCat · Post by **JoeCat** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:14 pm

wwjd wrote:where/who exactly are these people that can't afford a DAW?
I've not read this whole thread...

personally, I've seen it is better if people learn to work for something rather than get handouts, but that's all I have to say about that.

I agree - in an ideal word, reward is commensurate with sacrifice.

One of the biggest issues I've noticed personally just from looking at the threads on KVR is the disparity in relative costs of goods. I think someone else pointed out that for someone living in Eastern Europe for example, $100 or $200 US towards an instrument/plug-in/daw might be equal to a month's rent, whereas for a employed professional in the US it is relatively inexpensive. There is a much greater ratio of the costs of consumer goods to food/housing.

So, small sacrifice for someone like me == big reward for a fellow musician.

trimph1 · Post by **trimph1** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:17 pm

JoeCat wrote:
wwjd wrote:where/who exactly are these people that can't afford a DAW?
I've not read this whole thread...

personally, I've seen it is better if people learn to work for something rather than get handouts, but that's all I have to say about that.

I agree - in an ideal word, reward is commensurate with sacrifice.

One of the biggest issues I've noticed personally just from looking at the threads on KVR is the disparity in relative costs of goods. I think someone else pointed out that for someone living in Eastern Europe for example, $100 or $200 US towards an instrument/plug-in/daw might be equal to a month's rent, whereas for a employed professional in the US it is relatively inexpensive. There is a much greater ratio of the costs of consumer goods to food/housing.

So, small sacrifice for someone like me == big reward for a fellow musician.

Precisely.

JoeCat · Post by **JoeCat** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:24 pm

aciddose wrote:there are lots of issues, some of them legal issues. collecting donations intended for anyone but yourself or associated with any specific promise can get very tricky. i'm really not sure how that works. i suppose you could just set up a pay-pal account or something similar and collect donations into an "initiative pot" of some sort without specifying the exact destination.

True. I know Computer Music, etc. have issues with their sweepstakes and international law, etc. However, KVR, sponsors things like OSC with donated gifts, etc., There are (to the best of my knowledge), not as many laws concerning gifts as opposed to sweepstakes, etc. especially at these relatively low dollar amounts. There's issues like claiming income on taxes, etc. but I think again that's atypical at small amounts.

So perhaps something very simple whereas a "sponsor" simply pays / donates towards the purchase of some product for another recipient in agreement with the dev? People have done that informally in the past - we'd simply be making it easier.

DreamTrance · Post by **DreamTrance** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:25 pm

JoeCat wrote: I think someone else pointed out that for someone living in Eastern Europe for example, $100 or $200

I live in Eastern Europe as a student,now. Here is rent 312 dollar and one room.

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:55 pm

Jury is out for me on this, I am all for an incentive to help cut back on warez users, but there will be those who abuse it.

I'm not sure I fully understand how it will all work, I haven't really read the whole thread, but my opinion is, if people are serious about making music with the best equipment they can afford, then they'll find a way to pay for it. Saying someone is "poor" is vague at best. I'm "poor" as in I'll never be able to work, never have an income and never afford the best of stuff, but i've purchased everything I own, by scrimping and saving, and in fact putting myself in more debt than i'll probably ever payback, but that was my choice.

Is the definition of poor someone who has no money that works, has no money is a dole bum, has no money due to not working from ill health, or has lots of money just chooses to pretend to be poor ?

You see my dilemma here.

But I applaud you for starting food for thought.

(Good thing is i'll die young so probably never have to pay it all back haha)

bpblog · Post by **bpblog** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:07 pm

just noticed this thread now! 14 pages to read now, whew...

before i get to that, just to say that i'm willing to help in any way possible (with promotion, providing material, etc.).

i started writing my blog about three years ago with similar intentions - collecting all the best free music tools in one place (bpb Freeware Studio and Free Sample Shootout series).

anyway, big thumbs up for this and count me in!

on to reading all the posts now!

Mutant · Post by **Mutant** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:41 pm

Why not start a new monthly "Freeware host challenge" ?

Competitors would be only allowed to use some exotic little hosts with only free plugins to make songs.

I think it would be pretty interesting to create something in Minihost or VSThost.

It would also show every newbie that you don't need to pirate Nuendo or Pro Tools to become a musician.

DreamTrance · Post by **DreamTrance** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:57 pm

Mutant wrote:Why not start a new monthly "Freeware host challenge" ?

Competitors would be only allowed to use some exotic little hosts with only free plugins to make songs.

I think it would be pretty interesting to create something in Minihost or VSThost.

It would also show every newbie that you don't need to pirate Nuendo or Pro Tools to become a musician.

If noone dont need it , why a lot of people works on them? They just want to throw money?

May be a newbie wants to be producer and good sound engineer?

or may be wants to be great electronic and trance producer ?

Can you show me a producer who uses except FL,Cubase,Pro tools or nuendo,Logic

May be a newbie wants to work on studios in the future ?
When they will ask " do you know use Pro Tools,Cubase or Nuendo "

Show me a professional studio who uses only basic DAW or what else.

aciddose · Post by **aciddose** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:06 pm

actually i often create little things using only over-dubbing with two instances of a small wave editor of which there are many free ones to choose from plus a single synth instance in something like vsthost (although i use my own host named this, not the more popular one.)

i've suggested "one hour compos" as they're called with this style many, many times. nobody ever seems really interested.

that's something for another thread - but i think that thread could live in "community initiatives" or whatever the name would be. while i like the idea, i think the general sub-forum idea works way better.

just having a forum named something like this can get people thinking. posts sharing code happen in the dsp forum sometimes and you can be pretty certain they wouldn't ever have been posted without the forum existing.

Initiative to help the less fortunate obtain legit software and help spread the love. Seriously.