Zebra3 Info

[diaper@ky]

Signals and systems, which implies difference equations (discrete version of differential equations), Fourier transforms, etc. etc.

Mario, come back to VI...

[Urs]

In anticipating for 2.8 update (didn't found zebra2 theme) - is there will be a visual feedback for modulation stuff (2.8 or 3.0)?

I don't believe that excessive realtime visualisation does more benefit than harm. The human brain is incredibly capable of mapping out a synth patch, given enough peace to concentrate. I believe that a UI which blinks and wiggles all over is conteracting good sound design.

That said, we are going to deploy oscilloscopes in Zebra3 which can visualise audio and modulation signals.

I am certain that only oscilloscopes which provide a curve over time are really useful for visualisation. Colour changing LED-style meters or VU-style needles/LED strips are bound to the refresh rate of the computer screen which is insufficient even for 16th notes at 120 bpm. And oscilloscope-style visualisatiom on the other hand provides for a larger picture which is independent of frame rate.

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That said, if we're talking about a plain visualisation of "what modulates what" - yes, Zebra 2.8 will have a glimpse of that (for MSEG page), while Zebra 3 might have a special view dedicated to these kinds of connections. Yet again, I believe the need for this vanishes with experience in sound design on Zebra.

[spunkmuffin]

Sounds good to me.

Blinks N' Wiggles...is that the name of a unit in modular land?

[KBSoundSmith]

In anticipating for 2.8 update (didn't found zebra2 theme) - is there will be a visual feedback for modulation stuff (2.8 or 3.0)?

I don't believe that excessive realtime visualisation does more benefit than harm. The human brain is incredibly capable of mapping out a synth patch, given enough peace to concentrate. I believe that a UI which blinks and wiggles all over is conteracting good sound design.

That said, we are going to deploy oscilloscopes in Zebra3 which can visualise audio and modulation signals.

Sounds great. One of the features I was hoping for most.

[aumordia]

Excessive visualization can actually fool you into thinking you made something better than you did... "it looks so cool it must sound amazing!"

[clangorous]

Truth. As anyone who has ever tweaked a visual EQ for 20 minutes before realizing it was bypassed can attest. Errr...so I've been told.

[mrj1nx]

I've been using Alchemy a bit lately, and I gotta say it's pretty nice to see the modulation range and a virtual knob position moving around the knobs, I haven't been using Massive in a long time, but I'm assuming they got the ideas from Massive? For one thing, it helps to untangle/"debug" patches since you quickly see where things are moving, or when the knob position is off from what you expected, for example when you use the modwheel and are trying to figure out what it's modding. I guess anything that's faster than manual eye searching through a list is good.

[lnikj]

You just replied in the Repro-5 thread and mentioned you are working on the waveform editor at the moment Urs.

Will this be something in the same league as Serum's excellent editor? Or surpass it even?

[Urs]

You just replied in the Repro-5 thread and mentioned you are working on the waveform editor at the moment Urs.

Will this be something in the same league as Serum's excellent editor? Or surpass it even?

I'm more impressed with the Cableguys editor (less the lack of any kind of crossfades). However, I think we'll offer something that uses the term "morphing" in a more appropriate way, i.e. not just crossfades based on geometry or spectrum.

Does Serum have curve based wavetables at all? I mean, other than sample based ones..?

[lnikj]

You just replied in the Repro-5 thread and mentioned you are working on the waveform editor at the moment Urs.

Will this be something in the same league as Serum's excellent editor? Or surpass it even?

I'm more impressed with the Cableguys editor (less the lack of any kind of crossfades). However, I think we'll offer something that uses the term "morphing" in a more appropriate way, i.e. not just crossfades based on geometry or spectrum.

Does Serum have curve based wavetables at all? I mean, other than sample based ones..?

The Cableguys editor is really nice though I find that when editing curves it takes a lot of faffing with additional control points to get, say, a right angle. This is something very easy to dial in in the Serum editor. I would say, therefore, that the Cableguys editor is ultimately more flexible, but it is more time consuming to use than the Serum one. I wouldn't mind though, something similar to either model would be great in Z3. The mathematical function is probably good for people who understand such things (not me!!).

That is talking single cycles though. With regard to wavetables there has been a long thread on this recently. For organic sounding and slow sounds proper (?) morphing between waveforms is definitely needed and is not present in Serum.

I don't know much about this. Zynaptiq have (I think) some magic sauce for morphing, and I presume Camel Audio did too, that is not crossfading or purely spectral. No doubt you know how this is achieved!

[Urs]

Well, their spectral morphing is interesting in that they can crossfade the phase relation of harmonics individually. That alone makes it more interesting than just a plain crossfade.

What I have in mind does not require anyone to apply a function to create 253 intermediate steps to "morph" two waveforms. It'll be dynamic with continuous transitions between any number of key frames. Which doesn't rule out adding crossfaded across keyframes as well.

Q: Does Serum save wavetables with presets? Or does none need to install the wavetables used in presets? From YT videos it looks like they are plain .wav files. Which might make an import function desirable maybe...?

[lnikj]

Q: Does Serum save wavetables with presets? Or does none need to install the wavetables used in presets? From YT videos it looks like they are plain .wav files. Which might make an import function desirable maybe...?

Wavetables are embedded.

They are .wavs with 2048 samples per single cycle with up to 256 frames. Any 3rd party wavetables have to be converted to this format.

[Urs]

Are people okay with such large preset files? I was considering to limit the number of keyframes, but if 4 oscillators x 256 waves x 2048 samples is okay nowadays... that would be up to 8 MB of samples per preset, and thus also at least each that per instance, plus whatever it takes anyway...

[lnikj]

Are people okay with such large preset files? I was considering to limit the number of keyframes, but if 4 oscillators x 256 waves x 2048 samples is okay nowadays... that would be up to 8 MB of samples per preset, and thus also at least each that per instance, plus whatever it takes anyway...

Just had a flick through some 3rd party presets for Serum with fully populated wavetables and can confirm that your calculation would play out in reality for 4 oscillators!

It hasn't stopped sound designers selling presets for Serum and people buying them. YMMV.

[bmrzycki]

Does Serum have curve based wavetables at all? I mean, other than sample based ones..?

I know of at least one other synth that supports the serum wavetable format: eXpanse Hyperwave RE. Does this mean it's becoming a de facto standard or not is another matter.